Comments on Already Pretty: Style and Feminism

I came across this older post via the "you might a...

2009-12-30T14:31:30.679-06:00

I came across this older post via the "you might also like" on one of your new posts. You've addressed many important points and I could make a long comment responding to each -- but then I realized I'd mostly be reiterating your statements. *L* so instead I'll just say a big, huge "YES! WHAT SHE SAID! THANKS!" to this whole thing. ;)

Thank you so much for addressing this issue, as it's one I feel is very important and often gets dismissed. I also got a particular giggle about you sort of categorizing your blog as "fashion and feminism". :) I think that would be a great blog name. :)

Oh, re: your remark wondering if people coming here for one of those (say, fashion) get frustrated with the information on the other (for example, feminism) --

I wanted to step up and say the mix of those two subjects is the whole reason I read your blog. :) It's what makes you, you, so to speak. So I say please keep on doing what you're doing.

There are hundreds, probably thousands of style blogs out there. If someone wants just fashion they have no shortage of places to go. On the other side, if they want only feminism there are also many sites for that, such as http://www.feministing.com/ and http://www.feministe.us/blog/ or even http://jezebel.com/

The intermixing is what helps to set your blog apart and make it an interesting read. So I say go with your natural flow here. :)

lagatta à montréal: This entire blog is centered a...

2009-11-07T19:03:27.261-06:00

lagatta à montréal: This entire blog is centered around helping women who are NOT shaped as you described to love themselves and find flattering clothing. Just because society says a single ideal figure is the end-all, be-all doesn't mean it's true. Additionally, fashion is what's walking the runways, style is personal. I'm talking about the link between style and feminism in this post.

Any woman who can select from more than one pair of shoes and one robe to wear every day is lucky enough to have choices about what she wears. To say that only affluent women can choose what they wear is patently untrue, in my opinion.

Finally, I think you are misinterpreting Jen's comment. I would NEVER publish any anti-gay sentiment here, and did not take her comment to mean anything of the sort.

I love beautiful clothes (I am an artist, for one ...

2009-11-07T18:50:22.320-06:00

I love beautiful clothes (I am an artist, for one thing) but find that fashion and feminism are not always such good bedfellows, especially because of the very narrow and unnatural body type modern fashion dictates (very tall and slim with artificial boobs tacked on).

I can't quite agree with this either; it only applies to the most affluent women who don't have other galling restrictions in terms of what fits them and is comfortable:

"But many modern women have the luxury of near-total control over appearance. We may be influenced by peer pressure, societal norms, outside opinions, availability, and even climate ... but in the end, we decide. Personal style is an arena in which we rely solely on ourselves, in which we exert absolute control".

Control over anything is never absolute, in any society, and if you have arthritis in your feet and joints as I do, this is a major consideration, much as I love pretty shoes and would rather cut them off than wear clodhoppers.

Jen, what on earth have you got against lesbians? I'm most boringly straight, but some of my dear friends are gay men and lesbian women. Often they endure hell, even in our modern western societies.

All in all, a most thought-provoking post. True, feminism, like other human-rights movements, is also about pride. Google Rosa Parks for example and look at how beautifully she was turned out way back then for the bus protests.

This is such a deep and food for thought post, Sal...

2009-10-30T17:45:19.866-05:00

This is such a deep and food for thought post, Sal.
I love the way you put things up and write about them.
Thank you.

xoxo

great post! I'm a feminist and fashion-lover, but ...

2009-10-30T16:19:18.158-05:00

great post! I'm a feminist and fashion-lover, but I have always felt like they were contradictions as the fashion industry is often very harmful to women. Thanks for showing me that I'm not the hypocrite that I thought I was.

I love this post. I completely agree that fashion ...

2009-10-29T18:58:51.342-05:00

I love this post. I completely agree that fashion and feminism are inextricably linked. I also agree with you that individuals who say that they don't care about their appearance or about fashion are still making choices. They still care to an extent, and just because some of us take it a bit farther and actually buy fashion magazines, it doesn't mean that we are vain. I just found your blog, and adore it!

You should read Elizabeth Wilson's Adorned in Drea...

2009-10-29T03:27:42.345-05:00

You should read Elizabeth Wilson's Adorned in Dreams, it is very ineresting.

Hi there-a very well written and inspirational pos...

2009-10-29T03:10:43.077-05:00

Hi there-a very well written and inspirational post, I agree it is about making choices, I like to think I present myself the best way I can!

As I was reading this, I was thinking, "Man, she c...

2009-10-28T23:17:06.248-05:00

As I was reading this, I was thinking, "Man, she could really base an academic program based on this!" I can't wait to get to that article... I love thinking about these kinds of issues.... identity theory, etc., you reminded me because I forgot I did! I even taught a class on it! Man, I'm missing school right now!

What came to my mind is something about being kind...

2009-10-28T23:04:24.874-05:00

What came to my mind is something about being kind to oneself. Empowerment and good body image are not results only of ignoring the negatives, but actually forgiving those things and being as kind and nurturing to oneself as women generally are to others.

Just a point I wanted to make...

I consider myself a fairly radical feminist--I won...

2009-10-28T21:19:36.926-05:00

I consider myself a fairly radical feminist--I won't take a man's last name, for example, nor will I wear an engagement ring with a rock on it, as that smacks too much of the old bride-price to me--and, from time to time, I get crap about my stylistic decisions. I present as fairly feminine, and there have been people, especially in the queer community, who've complained that I was "giving in" or "too straight-acting." The idea that I might enjoy looking however I darn well wanted to look didn't seem to enter the equation; it was all about power and assimilation. My identity as a bisexual woman was seen not as genuine, but as a concession to male domination.

That always chapped my buttocks, as my granddad would say. I grew up in a small town with no support for queerness, or feminism, for that matter, except from other queers--back home, we stuck together. When I moved to a city, I was frankly amazed at how schismatic the queer community could be there, with identity politics all over the place. I thought, for goodness' sake, we have one common enemy: prejudice. We all know what it feels like to be discriminated against. Why on Earth are we directing our energy inward, on infighting, when we could be putting that energy into a push for positive and realistic media presentation, equal legal rights, and safer schools?

Then I realized that women do the same thing. We in-fight. We back-stab. We do it not because we want to, in many cases, but because that's how we've been trained by an establishment that has a vested financial interest in seeing us hate each other. If we don't feel insecure, we don't buy useless products. (Anti-aging creams, I am looking at you.) If we aren't fighting each other, we might fight the system.

And there is no reason--no reason at all--why we can't look good while we do it. I love my body. I love pretty clothes. And I have every right to love both of those things, and still want to be hired like a man, paid like a man, and respected like a man.

I love that you meld the two. I argue that femi...

2009-10-28T21:02:39.169-05:00

I love that you meld the two.

I argue that feminism isn't just about militant man-hating lesbians' rights. It isn't even just about rights. Ultimately, it's about human rights.

Great post! I try to explain this to people all th...

2009-10-28T19:18:09.886-05:00

Great post! I try to explain this to people all the time, but from now on I am just going to send them here!

Yes! That last point reminded me of an old Rush ly...

2009-10-28T18:20:00.500-05:00

Yes! That last point reminded me of an old Rush lyric I always liked: "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Yeah, I was a teenager in the 80's...

My version of feminism is that women should be val...

2009-10-28T17:15:37.299-05:00

My version of feminism is that women should be valued as equal members of society. Some of us want families, some of us are single, some like sports, some like music, some wear makeup, some like fashion, etc.

Do not let anyone define us ladies! We define OURSELVES.

I have a feeling that this view could be quite con...

2009-10-28T16:27:58.092-05:00

I have a feeling that this view could be quite controversial, though I agree with you wholeheartedly. You knocked it out of the park again Sal:)

Sal, this is a brilliant post, and I agree 100% wi...

2009-10-28T16:16:47.831-05:00

Sal, this is a brilliant post, and I agree 100% with everything you say here. The personal is (still) political, and as long as we're judged on how we look style will be a feminist issue.

futurelint, you sound a lot like me (except that I...

2009-10-28T16:02:27.885-05:00

futurelint, you sound a lot like me (except that I don't sew or have kids). I'm a tomboy through and through, but I also love my stiletto heels, cooking/baking, and hen nights with my girls as well as watching/playing sports, burping, and penis humor. There are as many ways of being a woman as there are women! :)

Very informative and interesting! I am generally i...

2009-10-28T13:59:17.219-05:00

Very informative and interesting! I am generally intimidated by the term "feminism" because well, I grew up a tomboy and now just love wearing skirts and baking and sewing and taking care of kids... I feel like I accidentally slipped back a generation or two, but I realize that is not true. I choose to care about my appearance, I chose to go to school for a degree working with children... and I absolutely think I should be allowed to choose those things for myself and get fair and equal treatment for them. Besides, I will always play baseball, hang out with mostly guys, and burp louder than anyone I know.

Here here - even the decision not to care is a dec...

2009-10-28T12:58:52.296-05:00

Here here - even the decision not to care is a decision. I love it when people try and give me a hard time about my clothing choices, and all I have to say is - so, did your mom pick your clothes then?

this was such a fantastic post! after embarking on...

2009-10-28T12:45:51.226-05:00

this was such a fantastic post! after embarking on my fashion photography journey, i have asked myself many times, if I am indulging some kind of frivolous superficial act. thanks for such a thought provoking and reassuring point of view. xo

One more reason why I love your blog so much. Than...

2009-10-28T09:49:43.249-05:00

One more reason why I love your blog so much. Thank you for promoting love and acceptance of all body types, on all women.

I wish for the day when any woman can put whatever she wants on her body (whether that's a burqua or assless chaps with pasties) and feel secure and happy with her choice.

Oh, and also thanks for not supporting the phrase ...

2009-10-28T08:44:05.859-05:00

Oh, and also thanks for not supporting the phrase "real woman have curves" but taking a much more all-accepting stance.
I am a woman, and I don't have curves, and hear me roar! GRRRRR :)

Your posts are always inspiring, thanks again for ...

2009-10-28T08:42:34.321-05:00

Your posts are always inspiring, thanks again for saying exactly what I was thinking, yet can't put the words together (as nicely as you do) to say :)

until i went to sweden i never considered myself a...

2009-10-28T08:22:54.641-05:00

until i went to sweden i never considered myself a feminist. or at least, i didn't think feminism anything fun, there was too much hate towards men and too much all-or-nothing in the business. in sweden i met a bunch of guys who called themselves feminists, which i thought was utterly provoking, considering that to my knowledge that would mean they had to hate themselves for being men, which i thought really stupid. the thing with feminism in sweden is, that it is a whole lot more about equality in all directions than feminism in germany. this would include guys (like my boyfriend) who want, for example, the right to stay at home with their newborn baby for half a year or even a year without being called a loser by their boss. it also means guys fighting for their girlfriend's right to equal pay for the same work. it also means my father complaining about his female boss because she got the job ONLY because she was a woman and there was no better woman to fill the quota, even though she is not competent. and ever since i really liked the idea of feminismi like the idea of feminism not only being a thing for women, and i think it's important to include guys and stop all the hatred which is still around..