Inder-ific posted this comment to this week’s poll, and I’m extremely glad she did. Both because I wondered if any of you had similar concerns, and because it forced me to articulate some concepts I’ve been chewing on for a while now. I’m going to post her question and my response as they appeared in the comments on this week’s poll about figure flattery priorities.
Inder-ific: Since I know this is all about having a positive self-image, I have to ask: Is all this talk of de-emphasizing really good for our self-image? I mean, I get that it’s better to talk about “de-emphasizing” than to say “I hate my thighs” or whatever, but it seems like this is still about trying to make our bodies fit into the societal ideal, rather than embracing ourselves as we are, no?
This is really a rhetorical question, since of course, I too try to dress to flatter my body, and perhaps that means “de-emphasizing” some aspects (like my large-ish bust, for example, which I do not dislike, but don’t need to “emphasize,” either! it emphasizes itself plenty! and actually, maybe that’s the key – my bust needs no emphasis).
So, honestly, I don’t know. Sorry for the incoherent thought, I just found the long lists of things that women want to de-emphasize a little disheartening! Is it just me?
Sally: I know what you mean, lady, especially since most of us DO have things about our bodies that we want to downplay. There are lots of comments here and many women have talked about the things they like least about their figures, and how they work to disguise those things.
Several things to consider, though: MANY of the comments here include both “hide” and “show off” priorities. There’s a lot of body love in here, too! Many have also pointed out that they prefer to create silhouettes that are different to the societally-approved norms. And several have talked about how dressing to draw attention toward or away from certain body bits has boosted confidence, or changed body image for the better.
Additionally, I want women to feel free to talk about their bodies in this space. I want them to talk about how they clothe and view their bodies and we need some descriptive terminology to do that successfully. “Flattering” is getting a bad rep because it carries implications of thinness, which I understand. But I don’t think that it’s harmful to want to emphasize or de-emphasize aspects of your figure. We all make choices about dressing, and items of clothing will emphasize and de-emphasize aspects of our bodies whether we acknowledge it or not. If we can discuss those effects and learn how to use those tools, we can better decide WHEN and IF we want to use them at all.
Self-love, to me, doesn’t necessarily mean loving every single aspect of your body and soul exactly as it is today and never making changes. Nor does it mean that you can’t change how you look, temporarily or permanently, without committing some terrible act of betrayal. Change is part of life, and to love yourself you often have to change yourself … or learn to embrace a changed you that the world has altered without your consent.
Body acceptance and self-love are fluid concepts, and both center on the self. That means each of us is the sole decision maker when it comes to how we look, in both body and dress. If we want to give the impression of bigger or smaller boobs, belt to create the illusion of a waist, or manipulate our proportions with clothing lengths and sizes, it’s our prerogative to do so. Can we always be sure that our decisions are free of beauty-paradigm influence? Of course not. Should we, therefore, ignore concepts of figure flattery? That’s certainly an option, and I think many women prefer to focus on other positive aspects of dressing. But I don’t think it’s harmful or damaging to learn about our bodies, learn how they’re shaped, and learn how clothing interacts with those shapes. I don’t think it’s damaging to dress in ways that draw attention to or away from aspects of our physical selves. Because, in some ways, doing so gives us MORE control over how our bodies are perceived and MORE of a connection with our physical selves.
Inder-ific: Sal, thanks for responding. You make many good points! Especially, that there is actually a big difference between “de-emphasizing” a part of your figure and actively “disliking” that part. So I do try to de-emphasize my large breasts, even though I’ve also made peace with them and would never say I dislike them (of course, do I need them to get bigger? no!).
You also make an interesting point about how having a good body image doesn’t mean we don’t want to change a thing about ourselves. That is super-interesting. Personally, I like the term “acceptance” – we need to accept ourselves as we are, and love that self, while of course, striving to be as healthy and happy as possible. Or something like that. I see feeling forgiving and gentle towards yourself as Step #1 towards making positive change in yourself.
I knew exactly why Inder-ific felt as she did, looking at those laundry lists of boobs and butts and bellies that we’re all working to disguise. It’s hard to think about style without thinking about the aspects of our bodies that we DON’T like, right alongside the aspects that we do. But I think we can find a balance. I’ve got another post coming up soon about what it means for something to be “flattering,” since I hope to reclaim that word. And I’m curious to get your input, too.
Does the word “flattering” rankle you? If so, why? Do you think that wanting to emphasize or downplay certain figure aspects is harmful? Why or why not?
Image courtesy the justified sinner.
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{ 30 comments… read them below or add one }
The word Flattering itself doesn't bother me, but the idea associated with it do. I like to think of my body as a bit like a resume: yes, I am going to be honest and proud of what I've done, but I'm still gonna try and make it seem the best possible, and I'm not going to undersell myself, and not as a Novel, where I'm going to make it all up.
I think where it becomes harmful is where the emphasis is *all* on minimsing/demphasising bits of you. If your whole focus is on the belly that you're not happy with, you internalise all sorts of rules that fast become restrictions – never wear horizontal stripes, never wear fitted stuff, hide behind waterfall cardis at all times, don't buy that because xyz, etc etc.
Before you know it you look like I did in those big baggy 90s jumpers that swamped me and you're hiding yourself as well as the perfectly-normal-just-not-your-ideal tum.
So long as you're talking from a standpoint of honest appraisal of self, though, and recognising the bits you love as well as the bits you'd prefer were differently arranged, I think it's perfectly human and healthy. I still tend to downplay my tummy, for example, because that's where I carry my weight. But I also show off my curves, legs and bust, which are all far more awesome than my teenage self ever gave them credit for, and I enjoy playing to a different strength on different days, depending on my mood.
wow, that's a hunk of subject.
It all comes down to what you think life is about and what is important to you. What women want to know and feel deep down is that they are making their own decisions without pressure from without (the sources of which are often not questioned enough!), and also they want to feel that they are acting in their own long term best interest. Not the interest of some retailer or advertiser or male gang that is rating them on a scale of 1-10. To become a slave to someone else's opinion means I am not free and that always hurts inside. Because we are born free.
So what IS in our own best interest? It all comes down to your beliefs. Do your beliefs support your own long term best interests? If not, why are you believing them? Slowly work on changing that.
The problems and disagreements arise between us when we believe different things AND then someone elses beliefs threaten ours, no? Because it's like we want some sort of agreement from people who think differently than us! We can try to persuade…but what else? Force it down people's throats? "You will see me as beautiful! Or else!" Well, then, what about their freedom?
It's a problem. I am a big believer in individualism and getting to know yourself.
But we don't come out of the womb knowing ourselves. It's a life long process. And we learn by experimenting. That's why I love experimenting with clothing because is such a great way to find yourself. Your feelings about your own "perceived flaws" help you AND hinder you on that journey. Limitations can be a gloriously helpful thing! I prefer to think of them that way! I pray we as women all stay out of the land of having to speak politically correctly about such things as our bodies because that can make slaves out of us, too, in its own way.
What struck me while reading this was how "emphasize" sometimes means making one body part look bigger while for another it might mean making it look smaller.
For example, we often "emphasize" a waist by belting or cinching to show off it's smallness, whereas "emphasizing" the bust is usually done to make it appear larger.
I think where it gets interesting is when we decide to make a body part look bigger/smaller in a way that's the opposite of "ideal".
I've read comments from people who purposely draw attention to a small bust because it looks delicate and they like the line of that part of their body. Similarly, I tend to emphasize my shortness by hardly ever wearing heels and generally not dressing to look taller. Some of that's practical, but it's also because my height feels comfortable and very feminine to me and I don't feel the need to change it.
So that's where the empowerment of dressing can really happen I think – by choosing to change the appearance of one's proportions based on what feels right, with little regard to the "ideal." I like the idea of making things look bigger or smaller because that's the way we like them, even (especially!) when it goes against the "ideal" body shape.
This is a great post, and something that I've been thinking a lot about since Dress Your Best Week. I'm actually okay with the word "flattering", but I do wonder whether it's constructive to think that way all the time. Having unconditional body love every now and then seems pretty important to me, as it helps us from getting too far into a self-deprecating mode of figure "flattery".
The word "slimming" sometimes rankles, as I was told for so much of my life it should be the primary consideration in choosing clothing.
I like how Imogen presents the whole play-up/play-down issue: it's about creating balance. We tend to prefer visual balance, and dressing to flatter is really about creating a harmonious and balanced whole.
I can't see how there's any harm in using your way of dressing to bring you from a state of "I don't like how this part of me looks" to "I do like how this part of me looks!"
I like to think that every part of our body is an ASSET, it's just sometimes we want to flaunt our assets, and other times we want to down-play them.
For example I have a very large bust – which is an asset, but I don't always want it to be the focus, but sometimes, in the right situation I do.
My initial reaction was that I don't have an issue with the idea of flattering, as long as people are accepting of the idea that there are many ways for clothing to flatter a figure. Wanting to look your best does not need to mean looking taller and skinnier if you don't want it to.
As I've been thinking about this comment and reading what others wrote, I wonder if I am okay with things being flattering because I am not comfortable with certain parts of my body. I like to downplay certain parts of my body because it makes me feel better about myself. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it is something for me to think about.
you're such a good writer, sally. i have been going around saying "boobs and butts and bellies, oh my!" all morning. my office thanks you.
So long as "flattering" is defined individually I don't mind. It is when everyone is pushed into one socially defined idea of "flattering" that it bothers me
hmmm. I also think location the outfit is worn plays a huge factor. I love my breasts- but I don't show them off unless at the beach
. I like my rear a lot, but I don't allow it to become a focal point again for modesty reasons. And while i like my rear, I don't like how it looks in thin clingy materials that emphasize defects- I like my rear in thicker material that plays off it's shape.
I don't think dressing to flatter is a problem- looking good can equal feeling good. For those of us without an overabundance of confidence, we can feel confident by looking 'good' to the majority of 'people'.
Great post, Sal!
I actually really like the word "flattering". To me it means that we already have something that is beautiful, and we have tools to make that something stand out even more.
In answer to your question, to me it's mostly the fact that however much you love your body, it is possible to wear clothes that make it look worse than it really is. So I would say that "figure flattery" for someone with a positive body image is about making sure your clothes do justice to you.
However, I do get frustrated with figure flattery advice sometimes. A lot of sources (not you!) seem to say "whatever you are, it's wrong." Like they will say, if you have a small bust, here is how to make it look bigger. But if you have a big bust, here is how to make it look smaller. I get, of course, that different people want to achieve different effects, and that's fine, but as a woman who went from a B cup to a DD cup in the course of her development, a lot of that advice can feel like "no matter what you look like, it will never be right." And I think that's an important message to steer clear of.
Great post. I am a first time commenter, but I love your stuff. I am OK with the concept of flattery as well, as long as we each get to choose what that means, rather than accepting some externally dictated ideal. For instance, I am very short, and the 'right' answer for that is I should wear heels to lengthen my legs, and be very careful about skirt length and cropped pants. I don't wear heels, but I just accept the impact that has on my appearance, and that's fine. I also sometimes choose clothes that are clearly unflattering by most standards, like cut-off engineer stripe overalls, and rather baggy, masculine-ish low belted jeans or capris. I do this because I feel GREAT in those outfits on those days. They flatter ME internally. I enjoy the body image discussions you have particularly because I've never been a person to engage in negativity about my body. I've been heavier, lighter, flabbier, toned, and its always just how I am, and a reflection of my life at the time. This may be because I work with my brain, and I've always had more concern about how my brain looked to other people than my body. Should we have a 'brain image' discussion?
I tend to choose "flattering" pieces but I try not to let figure flattery be the primary determinant when I'm shopping or getting dressed in the morning. Sometimes I just want to wear something that makes me feel a certain way or jibes with my mood that day, and it might not always be the most flattering option!
I think it may be how us women are.
To change the topic slightly, last week I wore a really cute outfit to work. We don't have dress code here so we can work what we want and I went with a highwaisted white skirt that bubbled out and went past my knees. On top I wore a black strapless top, kind of like a boustier but cleavage free and a purple sash belt. I looked really cute and pulled together.
However, when I got to work, people we "complimenting me" by asking me "why are you trying so hard today?" "what's the occassion?" "Why are you looking so sexy today?" "You look like you are going to the prom" and my favorite "I like you when you look nice, its better than the other days when you don't try so hard".
Is it just me or were all these girls being super rude to me?
Sometimes its hard being a woman.
One thing to consider is the clothing style itself. The style and fit of some clothes take something I like about myself and make it unflattering, so when I say I want to de-emphisise something soemtimes it is just due to the current styles and not something that I don't like about myself.
The idea of flattering–and by extension, emphasizing & de-emphasizing certain parts–seems pretty smart to me. It's a matter of aesthetics, not a matter of denial or having a poor body image. I mean, why would one INTENTIONALLY try to make one's hips look enormous, while trying to make one's boobs look like peanuts? That's a kind of hipster take on body image, making oneself look particularly unflattered so as to deny caring about appearance, in order not to be seen as bourgeois.
The word "flattery" itself implies a hollow compliment rather than a sincere one, which is why one might take exception to a "flattering" garment, or being told that a garment is "flattering" to the figure.
The correct word is probably "becoming," but who says that anymore? "That skirt is so becoming on you." Thank you, Loretta Young.
"You look great in that skirt" is always a nice thing to hear, though! Much better than, "Wow, in that skirt I can't even tell that you have an enormous butt!"
In addition to "becoming" (Charlotte's comment) I like the term that Brits/Aussies/Kiwis use of "suits." Like "those glasses suit you." I assume it's a similar meaning, but it always seemed to focus on the positive.
I like the term flattering, but I want to consider it as something to draws attention to what is nice about your body/appearance. I think about what people have to said to my male partner, which is so different than what gets said to women. Like a boss once told my partner that his green shirt made his eyes look really nice (they do). And brown (not black) flatters his coloring. And dressing in close fitting woven fabrics flatters his long/slim body shape, rather than fighting or trying to fake broad shoulders. I want to dress in a way that flatters my appearance in a similar way: one that is accepting and celebrating, and doesn't fight or create shame around my existing figure.
When figure flattery is presented as a feminist act, I rankle. Figure flattery means creating the illusion that one's body is slightly closer to society's imposed beauty ideal than one's body actually is. Feminism seeks equality for women, which can't happen as long as there is an unreachable societal beauty ideal women are supposed to continually work toward, like Sisyphus. Efforts to inch oneself closer to that unattainable ideal are not efforts in the pursuit of women's equality.
I posted in the other comment thread that I dress to maximize my belly in an attempt to look apple-shaped. I actually don't do that. That was a joke, intended to make the point that Inder-ific made so well in direct language. I have scanned through that thread, and I do not see any comment except my joke comment rejecting the Western beauty ideal, such as by attempting to appear less feminine, less hourglassy, more asymmetrical.
I don't judge anyone who uses style tricks to try to make their body appear a tad closer to society's ideal. There is such tremendous pressure to do so, and I do so myself without guilt. What I don't do is label those attempts to inch closer to society's ideal as feminist acts. They're so emphatically the opposite. Maybe our next question is whether we need to flagellate ourselves with guilt every time we do something that is not a feminist act? (My answer: we don't.)
Efforts to emphasize or downplay certain body parts aren't necessarily bad, but I think motivations need to be examined regularly, with much gentleness and self-awareness. It is so easy for efforts that start from a place of healthy self-love to turn into "neener neener my waistline is so much *healthier* than other women's" or for something that starts out as harmless "hmmm, let's see if I can direct the eye elsewhere" to contain an element of "I am so ashamed of that hideous body part."
"Self-love, to me, doesn’t necessarily mean loving every single aspect of your body and soul exactly as it is today and never making changes." Just delete the last four words, and that IS what self-love means to me.
Today, self-love means loving every single aspect of your body and soul exactly as it is today. Yes, even the so-called flaws. And tomorrow, self-love will mean loving every single aspect of your body and soul exactly as it is tomorrow. Changes, both intentional and unchosen, will happen over hours, days, and years. Thirty years from now, self-love will mean loving every single aspect of your body and soul exactly as it is thirty years from now.
I was so pleased and flattered (in a GOOD way!) that Sal wanted to open up a discussion about my ill-articulated comments! Thank you Sally!
Eve, this was my point exactly. I just felt disheartened that the focus of so many comments was on minimizing or "de-emphasizing" parts of the anatomy. It just seemed a little sad to me, the focus on all of these parts that we don't like because they don't fit some idea we have about the "perfect" whatever.
Now, I like the way some items of clothing look on me more than others, and I obviously love good style or I wouldn't read this blog. I understand that we can't entirely get away from those societal ideals. But it makes me sad to see women list off all of the parts of themselves that they feel need to be hidden or made smaller. Like, yikes, give your body a break!
I just wanted to say, I bet all your tummies, and butts, and thighs, and boobs, are just fine!! I bet they're really normal and great! I bet your body carries you around this world JUST WONDERFULLY (or if not, you probably have great perspective on this issue!). I bet you look good even without those items minimized/hidden/whatever! I love it when women really "own" their shape. Confidence is everything.
I look back at pictures of myself as a teenager, when I was painfully awkward and felt very unattractive, and I always think, "Dang! I was so cute! I wish I could have seen then, what I can see now, fifteen years and a baby later! What a waste!" (But fifteen years and a baby have taught me to appreciate my body so much more, so that part is great!)
So yes, I think it's really important to be nice to yourself, to see your body as servicable and beautiful even when it doesn't fit the societal ideal, and to dress to please yourself and feel good about yourself – perhaps focus less on hiding aspects of your body that you don't love. The language we use to describe ourselves and the way we dress is important.
That said, I agree with Sal that, at the end of the day, the important thing is to find clothing that makes you feel great, and obviously, some body-type calculus should probably come into it … it's tricky!
I think I just prefer it when women talk about the aspects of themselves that they love and want to maximize, rather than getting down on their bodies so much with all of this "minimizing" talk.
For the record, I don't mind "flattering" – I actually think it's a good term in a way, because if an outfit does not flatter you, it's the outfit's fault, not yours!! That outfit might flatter someone else, but not you. Nothing personal! Your body is great, that's just not the right item for it.
I disagree that "flattering" necessarily means bringing one's appearance closer to some societal ideal or norm. I'm sure some misguided people do think of it that way – but the more people accept themselves and speak out openly about their self-acceptance, the wider that popular definition of "flattering" will become.
Trying to make parts of you look bigger or smaller doesn't fool anyone, and it's not worth the effort. When we talk about "emphasis", rather, that means to direct attention to features that you want noticed. Of course deliberately emphasizing any part of you isn't necessary if you don't want to; a cohesive "whole look" is often the best way of showing that you're comfortable with every part of yourself.
The key is understanding what your features are (whether you like them or not) and how your clothing affects them. A good place to start if you're uncertain is to find which items don't make you feel uncomfortable or self-conscious – those are likely what suit you best. And then analyze exactly what makes you feel and look good in them.
Once you understand why your clothes suit you, you can dress intentionally. Not everyone may like your look, but no one will say "I wonder if she knows she looks that way." Owning your style – dressing like you mean it – is a realistic and admirable goal that everyone can aspire to, and one that will lead to a lot more interesting variety in the concept of "flattering".
This is such an interesting discussion . . . . I happen to like the word "flattering" and often tell other women that what they're wearing is flattering, because I think telling someone that she picked out the perfect thing to wear is a great and supportive compliment. And I don't automatically associate "flattering" with "slimming"; in fact, as often as not when I say something is flattering, I'm talking about the color rather than the cut (as in, "That's a great color on you!").
As for your thoughts about "reclaiming" the word flattering: the first words that came to my mind were symmetry and proportion. I don't think those are concepts that society has foisted on us; they are ideals in the natural world and in the world of art going back thousands of years. You know much more about this than I do because I'm not an artistic type, and I think an earlier commenter hinted at this too. But it seems to me that if we think of figure flattery as striving for symmetry and proportion and balance, rather than as striving for thinness, then maybe "flattering" becomes a less loaded term.
Yes, the way flattering is used does make me cringe sometimes. I blogged about it here http://craftastrophies.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/what-does-that-even-mean-anyway/
I don't think flattering ought to mean 'slimming', it should mean 'looks good'. And if you look good in a mumu, then that mumu is flattering!
well, pretty much what Eve said. Charlotte said, 'I mean, why would one INTENTIONALLY try to make one's hips look enormous, while trying to make one's boobs look like peanuts?' well, i do this a lot actually. i like the look of victorian/elizabethan silhouettes, thus the enormous skirts and petticoats. big skirts are also easier on my nerve-damaged legs.
and when i loose my 34D breasts on the world we live in, i get treated as an object. NOT a whole human being. it's not as bad now that i'm pushing 50, but it still happens a lot. sometimes i just am not in the mood to deal with it (silly me i want to get treated as a person without having to fight about a ton of societal conditioning, etc. with random people on the street) and my own relation to my breasts and body doesn't seem to have much influence on male reaction when i dress that way.
regarding the thread that started this discussion, i was imagining a discussion among typical men talking about their bodies in that way 'well, i love my butt, but my collarbone is kind of wimpy so i always stay away from wider ties to de-emphasize….' i've yet to hear it, except used by comedians as a sure-fire way to get a laugh.
on one level treating your body as an aesthetic object for your individual expression is great and empowering and creative. but it's so close to the space in our culture where we are conditioned to view our bodies as (solely) vehicles for male enjoyment and the pressures that can lead to eating disorders, unnecessary plastic surgery (expensive and not without health risks) and so on.
introspection and open discussion about these ideas seems to be one of the best ways to loosen up these unhealthy and unhappy ideas (where they exist) so we don't have to be bound by them. i'm really encouraged to see so many people here writing about how they are putting thought into these issues, i hope that effort makes them happier. steph
the word flattering doesn't rankle me at all. your post gave me a lot to think about, such as, why do women disguise and/or camouflage some body parts that are less than "perfect" (whatever that is)? i guess there is an ideal or fantasized ideal of what comprises a fashionable body type that lots of women, myself included, try to get as close to as possible. but i don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, if that ideal body type is a healthy, fit, and realistic ideal, not this stick skinny/anorexic look that lots of fashion models have. i know that although i'm smallish, i'm not at my most fit. i know that if i exercised more, i'd be in better shape. i know this because i've had that more fit shape before, but i decided several years ago to relax on working out and exercising, and i don't go to the gym anymore. consequently, my body is not what it used to be, and i camouflage the least fit parts. i don't mind though. it's a compromise i've made to have a more relaxed life and to spend time doing things other than working out and going to the gym. now most of my exercise comes form walking my dogs. i love going to the parks and walking trails with them. their company and the fresh air make me feel awesome. i'll continue to contemplate on your post. thanks for making me think about things that i take for granted. and for giving me and the other readers the opportunity to write down our thoughts about different these different topics.
I've been thinking about this a lot and how often "flattering" is conflated with a specific normative idea about beauty. I actually blogged about it too, not long ago, here.
The idea that only body conscious looks that fit within some discourse of heteronormative femininity are "flattering" really does bother me. And I find myself reproducing the discourse when I justify to others on my blog or in real life that I realize something I am wearing is "unflattering but I like the aesthetic anyway." And the style/fashion/outfit blogger body is automatically one on which people evaluate and judge. That is part of the medium. It is hard to undo an idea that is so ubiquitous and built into so many of the compliments women exchange with one another through bonding and socialization.
I've never had a problem with the concept of figure flattery. But it's really all in the attitude of the individual; if you tell yourself that you need to hide a certain body part or make it look different/larger/smaller than it is, that feels a lot different than telling yourself that you're going to play up your favorite features.
This is such a gnarly issue (as in philosophical and large) that I almost didn't comment. The good news, of course, is that it was a catalyst for thought.
There's no getting around the fact that many of the words that we apply to bodies and clothing — e.g., "flattering," or even "pleasing" == are based on societal constructs that we accept, if for no other reason than that they establish a shared vocabulary. How those constructs change, or need to change, is some of what you address in your blog, and that we should all think about from time to time. An obvious one is whether a smaller body is more pleasing than a larger one. I tend to think of these as impermanent, that is, choices that we make to think a certain way.
Where things get more difficult, and more interesting, is when we look at constructs that seem more hard-wired. Someone mentioned the research that shows that we — and by that I mean not only humans, but animals — respond more favorably to symmetrical arrangements: eyes more evenly arranged on a face, for example.
And what about those "pleasing proportions," which many of us subscribe to and speak about at length in style blogs: the "if you're wearing something voluminous below the waist then wear something form-fitting above the waist" etc.? How did these guidelines become established as "pleasing" in the first place?
What's hard-wired and what isn't? And are these factors really hard-wired or just longer-established than the others? Who knows? And even if they ARE hard-wired, does that mean we have to buy into them? It makes my hair hurt just thinking about it.
In the practical scheme of things — and that's where most of us live on a daily basis — it comes down to personal choice, which many commentors have mentioned. And then there's the issue of taste. My taste may differ from yours: maybe I think that all-around volume is great, and you may cringe at the thought. Can we ever stop labeling what we don't like as "ugly" or "unflattering"? Should we?
Obviously, I'm not coming up with many answers here, only more questions, but as always, thanks for the food for thought, Sal.
Clara