I have kept quiet about the recent comment controversies- namely at What I Wore* and Sea of Shoes – because I was pretty shocked by the level of anger in people’s responses, didn’t think I could contribute any new opinions or information, and frankly didn’t want to get sucked into what was clearly becoming a vitriolic dialogue.
But several folks have written to me and asked my two cents, so I thought I should go ahead and weigh in right here. I don’t think sending Jessica or Jane an e-mail would have much of an impact, so I don’t feel compelled to express myself directly to them. And besides I’m curious to hear more of what you all think. Several of you have voiced your opinions here, but I wanted to open the questions up again.
And the questions, as I see them, are:
- Are comments necessary, relevant, or important to a blog that is strictly a catalog of someone’s personal style?
- Can you tell your reading audience to only say nice things about your personal style posts and expect them to follow suit?
I’ll cut to the chase: I am of the opinion that a blog where the owner is only posting photos of outfits (or room interiors, or food, etc.) and never really doing anything else can just be eye candy. Most blogs are about community and I definitely want MINE to be about community, as I’m sure you all know. But there are lots of different ways to run a blog – none better or worse than the others, in my opinion – and some of them are successfully run comment-free. Nearly all of the daily style blogs that I read include comments because the women running them truly enjoy the feedback they receive from their readers. They love hearing suggestions for alternate ways to wear their duds, and often solicit ideas directly from their commentors. But if a girl just wants to post photos of her outfits as a personal log, or to provide strictly visual inspiration for those who can relate to her personal style, or whatever … I think that’s her prerogative. And if you don’t dig it, don’t visit. There are plenty of bloggers who actually want your input.
Again, this is not the model I prefer. I’d certainly never utilize it myself, since the comments I get are the lifeblood of this blog. But I don’t think it’s wrong or unfair or blasphemous. It’s just another format. A far less community-oriented way of running your space, but not inherently bad. A blog is just a self-published, self-run website, so a blog without comments is still, technically, a blog.
As for requiring positivity in all comments, I think it’s fantastically naïve to think that such a requirement could be met across the board. If you want constructive feedback, general respectfulness, and an environment that supports the open exchange of ideas, that’s one thing. I mean, we ALL want that. But if you just want straight-up praise? Moderate your comments, or don’t allow them at all. (Which is what Jessica/What I Wore did just last week.) Because no one in the whole wide world is going to get 100% praise 100% of the time, and demanding nice comments only is just going to bring out the worst in people.
And some of the worst that has been brought out by Jessica’s code of comments includes a sense of entitlement. I’ve read a lot of reader feedback to bloggers – style bloggers and lifestyle bloggers like Dooce specifically – that says things like, “I’m your customer, so treat me like a customer.” Which brings to mind an old episode of “Law and Order,” in which an older man became obsessed with a professional basketball player and began stalking and harassing him. His argument? “I own you since I buy tickets to your games. I’m your boss, you work for me, so I can say anything I want to to you.”
Yes, Jessica makes her living off of this blog. And yes, her large readership makes it possible for her to draw good money from ads. And yes, telling visitors to her blog to only say nice things about her wasn’t a wise thing to do and alienated tons of loyal visitors. But for those visitors to respond by saying that it’s their right to cut her down in the comments if they want to because they’re her customers? That spooks me. Bloggers should respect readers, readers should respect bloggers. Bloggers are not entitled to endless positive comments from all visitors, and visitors are not entitled to make demands about policies, content, or changes and expect them to be met immediately and without question simply because readership is the customer base. Neither is a reasonable expectation, in my opinion. And neither actually foster the sense of community that those WIW commentors were demanding.
In addition to the customer/shopkeeper dynamic, some people feel that if a blogger is making money – and potentially even subsisting off of a blog – that she should be dispassionate, level-headed businessperson and deal with all feedback as such. Even on non-monetized blogs, there is often this expectation of a customer/business model. And that can get sticky quickly.
I think that style bloggers can be a pretty vulnerable group. Most get started because they just love clothes, or want some feedback on their looks, or feel a desire to connect with the vibrant existing community.Very few get started thinking, “Hey, I’m gonna make some MONEY at this.” But if you get popular enough, money is possible. And few style bloggers say, “no” to it, myself included. This means many are put in the position of being business people without any formal training in business. Additionally, the money is coming in because writing/posting about personal stuff that ties into body image and self-image has become popular, and that creates a weird dynamic. Is this your life? Your business? How does the community aspect figure in? What do you owe your readership, if anything? Not everyone knows how to balance all of those considerations with aplomb, and many eff it up completely by accident.
I’m not saying that all style bloggers should be cut blanket slack, just that bloggers are not companies, they are people. There is no customer service filter to water down complaints since a blog is generally a one-person business, and whoever is running it is probably improvising anyway. And yes, the blogger has created a kind of public persona for herself, but that doesn’t mean the persona is going to receive negative feedback – the blogger is. And I think that key consideration gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.
Another comparison that struck a nerve was hearing people assert that commentors are guests and the blogger the hostess. Both commentors and bloggers have tried to use this analogy for leverage. “You’re the hostess, so you have to treat all of your guests as politely and lovingly as if they were actual people visiting your home,” say some commentors. “I’m the hostess, it’s my party, and I can make my own rules and kick out whomever I please,” say some bloggers. Well, I don’t think this is a fair comparison at all. It doesn’t really work from either perspective.
In fact, thinking about these issues and writing about them now has made it crystal clear to me that there is no other situation quite like a blog. It’s its own animal, and trying to superimpose the social norms of another human situation or interaction atop just muddies the waters. ESPECIALLY because the word “blog” encompasses all-photo-post formats like Shoelust, personal essay sans comments like Mimi Smartypants, daily drawings like Natalie Dee, reader-driven communities like You Look Fab, and everything in between. Those are all, technically, blogs and they all have different levels of reader interaction. And while I cannot imagine this space without comments and audience input and debate and all the fabulous aspects of MY specific community of readers, in my opinion, there is no one right way to blog, so there is no one right way to handle the blogger-audience dynamic.
Finally, the second commenting-related post in What I Wore – and the one that prompted Jessica to turn off comments altogether – posits that nasty comments stem from jealousy. That may be true in some cases, but I cannot imagine that it’s true universally. Or even universally in the style blogging world. There’s no way to know why people troll, and it doesn’t really matter anyway. What matters is how you handle those comments, how they affect your other commentors, how they affect you as a blogger.
I am very curious to hear what you all think about these issues, both as they apply to the two bloggers I’ve mentioned and just generally. I’m quite certain that some of you will disagree with my opinions and I look forward to a rousing debate, as always. However, if you feel the need to be shaming, disrespectful, or unnecessarily rude, I will not publish your comment.
Now, if you’re going to get on my ass about moderating my comments after just saying that openness to critique and honesty in comments is commendable, consider this: I reject about one out of every 100 comments and allow through tons of opinions that rankle me personally so long as they’re presented with respect. Additionally, actual me – not some level-headed public persona – STILL SEES any horrifyingly personal rips, disrespectful and hateful diatribes, or offensive rants that get sent via the comments here. I see them and I feel them, but I don’t publish them because I want my audience to feel safe and happy when they read and respond. And comments full of nastiness destroy open dialogue because everyone involved becomes fearful of backlash, myself included. And I refuse to be afraid in my own blogging space.
While a comment in which you respectfully disagree with some of the tenets of the Fat Acceptance movement may be interesting, a comment in which you say that fat people can’t possibly be happy while they’re overweight is completely unacceptable. It will hurt, shame, and alienate the very people that I am trying to love and teach to love themselves, and I just won’t have it on my blog. I WILL NOT let hatred and cruelty through the filter – directed at me or anyone else – and I don’t give a shit if you think that makes me a hypocrite. That has been my code of comments from day one, and I stand by it because I want this space to be one of open, intelligent, respectful dialogue. And it always has been, and I don’t believe that carefully and judiciously moderating comments interferes with that one iota.
I realize I’ve said this stuff many times before, but having seen tempers flare and insults fly over these issues, I feel compelled to say it once more. Say anything you want, but be respectful. Period.
So, now that we’re done with the disclaimers, what do you think?
- Are comments necessary, relevant, or important to a blog that is strictly a catalog of someone’s personal style?
- Can you tell your reading audience to only say nice things about your personal style posts and expect them to follow suit?
*What I Wore’s comments are now turned off and removed from posts, as I mentioned, but you can still read post 1 and post 2 about commenting and her policy.
{ 110 comments… read them below or add one }
I read her (WIW) blog almost daily. I never read the comments, nor commented on her blog. I did get tired of her telling all what they could or could not say on her blog. I just deleted her from those blogs I read. I found yours a few months ago, its wonderful. Thank you for sharing.
I can respect not allowing downright mean comments. I've never dealt with any myself, but I believe my comments form says any rudeness for rudeness' sake will be deleted. I don't know if that will be my policy when that day comes. Who knows.
I respect Jane's decision to turn off her comments. It seems she a) was sick of getting 100 comments that say "I love your shoes!", and b) was getting some disturbingly nasty comments, which I believe she mentioned.
Jessica, well, I was fine with her first post on comments. Understandable. The second enraged me. I get that she doesn't want the internet trolls giving her trouble, but posting again is only going to fuel the naysayers, show that she's affected by it and that they're winning. If people are being mean to make her feel bad, they won't care about a post that tells them to stop. Either way, I feel like she came off as saying that she didn't want any real criticism– say nice things or go away. As a journalism student (and I think of blogging as a form of journalism) I find that a ludicrous thing to require of an audience. There are always going to be people who don't like your outfit. So pretend they don't exist?
Also, the jealously thing really got to me. In a sense, bringing in Tavi was like making a comparison– and if you ask me, Tavi's probably a bigger "celebrity" right now than Jessica is anyway. That aside, basically saying to your readers "I had a revelation: you say mean things because you're JEALOUS of me" is a terrible thing for a blogger to say. Sure, her blog is her own to decide what to do with, but she only makes money off it because of the support people gave her that helped madke it popular. Alienating those people like that? Immature and naive. I never read Jessica's blog that often, but I won't be reading it again.
I suppose from a selfish point of view some readers may want to comment enthusiastically with their appreciation for someone's personal style in order to encourage the blogger to persist with the blog. Otherwise, no, not necessary.
As to positive/negative comments, there are always going to be disgruntled people who take pleasure in stirring the pot. These remarks don't need to be published. It's obvious what they are.
I do think it's important to distinguish between personalizing things and discussing issues. Both the commenter and the blogger could, in a perfect world, hew to that standard.
In the case of someone claiming that fat people could not possibly be happy, a blog devoted to encouraging women's happiness with themselves as they are could take that as another opportunity to teach. Tone is important so sometimes – if it's possible with the software – could such comments be edited and included or if not possible, edited and paraphrased? Sometimes it's just a particular word or phrase that comes across as belligerant or jeering and the rest of the thought is worth dealing with.
I guess I see people who make money from their blogs as entrepreneurs who are running a business somewhere between service and retail. Some larger businesses do solicit critical feedback but certainly not all and so it isn't necessary to publish something that damages the goodwill of the business. I do think that because it is a business customers do have that right of contacting the blogger with critical input but that doesn't mean it has to be published.
I have stopped reading WiW. The "comments code" posts struck me as narcissistic and somehow very young. Jessica wants admirers, not readers, so I went away.
1)Comments are not necessary, but I am with you, they're a nice addition.
2)No. But you can moderate anything out that you want. I don't think it's honorable, though, to never allow negative or critical comments through. I wouldn't follow a blog that facetiously presented that kind of perfect image. Style is just style and if people didn't have different styles, it'd be non-existent.
when i read WIW's post, to me, it seemed pretty narcissistic. it kinda feels like by turning off the comments she's just saying "hey, look at me! look at my clothes! aren't they awesome?!" and without any feedback at all her readers are an audience or admirers rather than a community.
this is especially true because she blogs as her job! i wish i could go to my job and *never* get criticism or pointers on how to do something better! that would be awesome!
Hmm… Thoughtful post, Sal. I know I'm chewing on this one!! I definitely have been wondering about the usefulness of comments sometimes–mostly because I wonder if in some cases, it just doesn't come off as a slightly narcissistic ploy for approval. I tend to approach commenting–both on my blog and other's–with the old addage: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. This doesn't mean I don't dissagree with someone (or welcome disagreement), but that it better be couched in respectful terms with a measure of thoughtfulness and realizing that it's usually a personal opinion and not written in stone for everyone. I like how you have it set up so that disrespectful comments are not posted. It keeps the discussions focused and prevent commentor's from taking up sides against each other in petty arguments. The internet has enough drama already. lol.
So, in answer to #1: I think if it's strictly a style catalog blog, then no, comments are not necessary. In fact, I find them annoying since 9 times out of 10, they come down to nothing more than people saying trivial things and not offering any real critique (if that's what is sought) or feedback. However, if the blog veers more towards asking opinions, offering advice/thoughts or dissecting ideas, than I dare say that comments are helpful. I know I cherish the feedback (both good and critical) that I have gotten on certain posts because it's given me new ideas or ways of seeing things.
For question #2… I think in a way this is a very narcissistic thing to do. While Jessica pointed out that in real life, someone wouldn't march up to you and say something negative, I beg to differ (having been on the receiving end of style negativity while out in public more than I have online!). People can be rude, and to some extent when you put yourself out there, you have to prepare for some sort of negativity. All great artists have, and yet they still continued to create (and in many ways, controversy makes something better!). I would never dictate to my readers that they are only allowed to say nice things, even though I'm like every other gal out there and do dislike negativity (especially when it's directed towards how I look). But then again, I am also of the opinion that if you don't like what you're reading, don't read it. I know not everyone is so disposed.
lol.
♥ Casey
blog | elegantmusings.com
As a style blogger I welcome and love reader comments! I get to know my readers through the comments and love to hear what they have to say. I even ask my readers opinions! I don't think my blog would be the same without the comments….
As to asking them to only post positive comments, that's unreasonable. I can't control what they write as much as they don't control what I post about. That being said, I think we can expect polite disagreements or critique, but done in a respectful way, like you have stated. Outright meanness is never necessary, in "real life" or on our blogs!
Thanks so much for sharing your take on this subject!!!
1. Comments aren't necessary on any blog and are really only relevant or important when there is actually something to discuss. Once I realise that the comments on a blog (or on outfit posts in a blog) just tend to be of the "I love your shoes!" kind, I never look at them again. I love reading comments and discussion that arise over opinion pieces, musings etc. such as on this blog.
2. A blogger can tell her readers to respond in whatever way she likes – but she shouldn't expect them to comply! Comment moderation is the tool for dealing with personal attacks, hate mail, and cruel remarks. And I DO believe that the blogger can exercise whatever control they deem appropriate through that mechanism. Readers will soon figure out what type of blog it is if their comments do not appear.
I am actually in the middle of writing a post about bad comments vs. fashion bloggers. Your post reminds me that other people (who aren't me) do take their blogs seriously and they can be a person's livelihood. Despite this, I still don't understand why people internet comments so deathly seriously.
There will always be internet trolls and mean comments no matter what you do. Trolls troll because they can. People post comments for a variety of reasons. I know it hurts to have something you crafted with love to be torn apart by commentary from strangers who don't care but that happens in real life too. I thought that most people just have to learn to roll with the punches and get used to deleting emails.
It is naive to expect that your comments section be nothing but happy fun times. In fact, that is boring. When I put my writing out there, I want it torn apart so I can be better. A little conflict makes things interesting! A lot of nastiness? Not so much fun but hardly a big deal to me.
Then again this is coming from a hardly visited, half comedy half fashion blog that talks a lot about video games. My perspective is entirely my own, even when I can sympathize with others.
Love this post, Sal. To answer you, I don't think that comments are strictly necessary on a fashion photo blog – or any other, but I do think they are the lifeblood of blogs in general. I love to read comments others have left. Admittedly, when every comment echos the "you look fabulous" motif – 500 times – I do start to skim, but I love to see what other people think.
Blogs have personality because the process is interactive. One of my fave bloggers occasionally turns off comments when she doesn't have time to reply to them (she has 4 kids!) and, although I completely appreciate that she doesn't want to feel beholden to the 100 or so comments she frequently gets, I do miss having the opp to comment on her totally thoughtful, insanely funny posts.
Your blog, particularly, receives some of the most insightful comments from amazing commenters. I think it would be less fun to visit without the dialogue you've created a space for.
What I Wore (Jessica) lost me when she got all huffy about people expressing their "unwanted" opinions and alluding to the fact that they are jealous. I do think that her conceit came out. Whether I'm simply imagining it, I guess I'll never know.
It's immature to expect everyone just to agree with you. That's super boring. Respectful, fun commentary about how one might do things differently (if she chooses)is what it's all about.
That's my 2 cents.
it seems that if a blog turns into a community of sorts, and the way that community *communicates* is cut off, then it's no longer a community. people can still read the blog, but I'm sure many of them get a lot out of being part of that particular community. so disabling comments outright seems counterproductive to what's been built over at What I Wore. (I've never read the blog outside of the comment-related posts, and I don't plan to start.)
as for the second question: I think the answer is no, for the same reasons already stated: you can't expect everyone to be one hundred percent happy with you/your actions/whatever one hundred percent of the time. anyone who can't handle that honestly probably can't handle a lot of other universal truths about life.
Fantastic post! I was just thinking of discussing something like this too.
1. I don't think comments are necessary if it's just a catalog.
2. Sure you CAN tell your readers to say only nice things, as WIW did. But it doesn't seem to end well.
One thing that bothered me about that post was that she didn't seem to even want constructive criticism – even when she ASKED for feedback. She ASKED for feedback (on several occasions) but apparently only wanted praise-feedback. There is a difference between: "That scarf looks really bad like that" and "Maybe you would want to consider wearing the scarf differently, it might have a better effect and make the outfit look more put together. For example…" But my impression was that she didn't even want that. Maybe I got the wrong idea, but I still was a little taken aback.
Also, the comment to got to me was something along the lines of "I like my style just as it is and don't want to change it." (paraphrased- but it was something like that.)
Well said! This is a very well thought out response to a very prickly issue. Lots of food for thought…thanks for a great post!
I agree with pretty much everything you said about comments. I read alot of blogs that I rarely ever comment on, and never read the other comments. I tend to only comment when I really love something they posted. So whether a blog has commenting open or not doesn't bother me, it's the bloggers call whether or not to allow it, it's their environment.
Where I get a little perturbed is the attitude and air of superiority I got from both of Jessica's posts. Honestly, before those I had thought of her as a sweet girl-next-door, relatable, and just trying to make it doing something she loves.
Since those 2 posts though my impression of her has completely changed. Now she comes off as commercial, narcissistic, and artificial. More and more of her content is sponsor ads, and pictures of her "gigs". I have been debating deleting her from my blog roll for a couple weeks and haven't yet, in hopes that it was just a phase. But I think I will delete her today and stop following. I read style blogs to feel inspired and creative, WIW does none of this for me anymore.
Bloggers certainly don't have to allow comments. Some of the big non-fashion bloggers, like Leo Babauta have turned off the comment function on their blog and turned to Twitter for conversation. That's OK. But I like comments on my blog. The haters, few though they are, have actually given me much food for thought. I don't post pictures of myself, don't have a thick enough skin for that, but I do post my fairly personal thoughts about style and family and values. I want the dialogue. And all that comes with it.
Everyone has a right to do what they wish with their blogs. It's their prerogative, but I agree with you– I like to keep my comments open, and I enjoy getting them as well… Maybe I'm not as popular as the blogs you mentioned, and that's why I've never had to deal with negative comments…
Someone once wrote that blogs are like cocktail parties. There is no RSVP list, and no people at the door. So anyone can come in. It's your right to tell your guests the rules of the house. But if they don't like the party, they're not likely to stick around for much longer…
I felt disgusted when I read the WiW post that dictated what kinds of comments were allowed. It made me roll my eyes and think, "How childish."
Comments that are mean-spirited or troll-y, of course, are never welcome, and I can understand that. But there is a difference between comments like that and comments (positive or negative) that comments that show the reader had genuine interest in a blog post. I could read someone's outfit post from top to bottom and decide that the outfit could have looked even better with a different pair of boots or gold jewelry instead of silver. If I say that in a comment, what's so bad about it?
I have read WiW from time to time, but after this nonsense I won't be reading it again. Sorry, Jessica, but I don't think I want to contribute to your salary by oohing and aahing over you.
Woah. This is an interesting & provocative issue, Sal. But it seems to me that it's up to the blog owner how she wants to handle her blog. If she wants to cut the comments, then she certainly has that right. If she wants to only post positive comments, then that's OK, too. There's a lovely story in the new BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 2009 by Yiyun Li called "A Man Like That" that takes up this issue beautifully and thoughtfully. Essentially, it's about how reality is shaped, and the one who shapes it is the one who has a voice. Recommended reading!
You really hit the nail on the head, Sally. This was a very well thought out response to the controversy. At the end of the day, it’s boils down to this statement: “say anything you want, but be respectful”.
Sometimes readers do forget that there is a real person behind a blog and like everyone else, their feelings get hurt too. While criticism is welcome, it has to stay constructive. I have blogged about fashion and style each day for almost four years and one of the things that I’ve learned is to develop a thicker skin. If you put your opinions out there, you have to take the heat that goes along with it. But by the same token, I am very protective of the youlookfab community. Readers may criticize my thoughts and outfits because it’s my blog, but I will not tolerate rudeness towards anyone else in the YLF community precisely for the reasons you have mentioned. So at the end of the day, mean what you say but be nice!
I've already done my bit on this, so I'll try and keep it short.
1. Yes, absolutely, not having comments is absolutely ok. Comments are about interaction, and if you don't have time/don't want that, you know fair enough. I read a few blogs that don't have comments and that's fine.
2. But demanding only positive comments is not ok. if you want the good, you've gotta take the not completely good. It's ok to moderate out really nasty comments, but she was actually banning any not-complete-postivity. that's different.
About the readers are customers thing, I do agree with you to some extent. Bloggers are people with feeling and of course don't have to do whatever readers say.Not even 'real' companies listen to their customers that directly.
But I do think if you are monetizing your blog to the extent that Jessica has done, and you use it as a platform to launch a career in the fashion industry, then you've gotta get used to some negativity. I'm not saying that the negativity is necessarily allright, but you do have to grow some skin. The fashion world is notoriously bitchy, and if you're going to let yourself be affected by a couple of anonymous comments to that extent, I would hazard the guess that you're probably not ready.
It's all a matter of degrees I suppose, but WiW does strike me as a very commercial blog and I would expect it to be run as a business. The jealousy thing just made her seem very young, and not at all professional.
I've had a "blog" since 1999, well before the word "blog" came along, and before there were all these nice softwares and stuff for making and moderating comments. And…sometimes you just get comments/e-mails that are like when that guy on the street yells something creepy at you and makes you feel like your personal space was invaded and who the hell does he think he is, talking to a random woman on the street that way anyway? Did his mother not teach him any manners?
The problem is people forget the internet is the street and you can't stop random jerks from wandering through. Have you read some of the scary comments on news articles about Barack Obama? Those people are out there and they could be up in my comments just like they could be my next door neighbor. I don't even like to see mean/creepy comments in the pool I have to moderate, or comments that indicate that people know who and where I am and could mess with me if they wanted to. Fortunately it's been rare.
If I put pictures of myself up there every day, instead of occasional random verbal ramblings, I'd probably get a whole lot more random creepies, and I would feel like it was very personal if they were mean about how I look. That's why I am not a fashion blogger, I guess. Anyway, I'm sympathetic to the impulse to turn off comments or tell people to be nice. Experience tells me the latter won't work though, even though 99% of the people are nice there's always the possibility of that one jerk to blow your day and make you feel bad.
I don't think comments are necessary to style blogs. However, I do think they can be very relevant. Many of the style bloggers that I follow are looking for interaction with their readers; many are open to suggestions and opinions; many welcome comments by asking questions in their posts. I know that the majority of people prefer to lurk rather than to comment, but I love to be able to say what's on my mind. For this reason I do not regularly read any blog that won't allow me to do so. This, of course, is just my point of view.
I think I've said before that you can expect your readers to follow a certain etiquette. In other words, I make it clear that I will censor any comments that are racist, homophobic, use sexual language, etc. However, I respect and encourage constructive criticism, suggestions, and diverse opinions about our attire, etc.
And, Sal, you are awesome!
I read a lot of blogs every day without commenting on them. I read them for inspiration and because I find the women who write them to be smart and interesting people. But I rarely comment at all. I don't feel like I need to, and frankly, I don't generally feel the need to know other reader's opinions. So I think that a blogger's personal choice to allow comments or not has very little effect on my experience of her blog. I don't blame anyone for turning off their comments; it would be frustrating to put yourself out there every day as a blogger, only to get critical or mean comments. No matter how many nice things people say, it is the nasty ones that stick with us. Personally, I think it's just better not to comment at all if you don't have something nice to say.
Really great post as usual Sal. I agree that nothing is like a blog, but the reality is that we are figuring it all out, so the discussion will end up creating new norms. Are readers customers? No, but without readers, blogs can not make money from ad sales. Bloggers can do what they want, but realize that there will be consequences, good or bad. Bloggers and readers do have a relationship, but then again most business relationships are also a kind of relationship. The weird thing about the internets is that it creates a quick sense of intimacy and probably stronger expectations that in real life. Part of the reason why I was annoyed at the WIW comments policies (and the subsequent "U R JealUS" post) was because Jessica presented herself in the past as very sweet, humble, approachable, and friendly. I believe that she is all those things, but it seems that the success has made her sensitive.
No one likes criticism, but it's a fact of life. You have to take the crunch and the smooth. Even shutting off comments won't end the chatter about a blogger on the internet, as other blogs are now opening up to talk about this.
To answer your questions:
1) They are not necessary, but they matter depending on what kind of community you are trying to create. Blogging isn't art, but it's like art. When you make it public, you can not control the reaction to it. You can only control your reaction to the way people react to the blog.
2) A blogger can ask whatever she wants from her readership. (One of my favorites, IamBossy.com, asks for places to crash as she tours around the country). However, readers are perfectly within reason to disagree, ignore, follow the policy, or just stop reading. I think many people will stop reading What I Wore because she alienated her readership. But as Jessica expressed that she was surprised with the response, it's a lesson learned.
Keep up the good work. Your blog remains a favorite everyday treat!
I honestly thought Jessica at WIW sounded extremely full of herself when she insinuated that nasty comments she gets were all due to jealousy…especially since I kept getting the feeling that by nasty, she meant negative feedback of all kinds. I'm willing to admit that I AM jealous of this girl, but certainly not because of her clothes…rather, because I would LOVE to have as many readers and commentors as she had, and I can't imagine shutting that off because you don't like everything that's being said.
That aside, I don't think comments are necessary to a blog, but I also kind of think that without them, many blogs would become pointless exercises in vanity. I know some people might just want a personal style diary, but if it's on the internet that kind of says they want readers and viewers, too. Not allowing feedback, to me, says a blogger just wants silent readers and viewers, who look but don't think, or at least don't think differently. There's no law against it, people can do that if they want…but it isn't the kind of blog I'd give a second glance.
And no, I don't think you can tell your audience to only say nice things. You can expect them to be respectful of you and other readers, but there's a difference between respect and praise. I personally would be bored with a thousand comments that all agreed with me (where's the discussion in that?), but beyond that, demanding praise only from your readers is essentially the same as not allowing feedback. It serves the same purpose, anyway: to shut out ideas and thoughts other than your own. In a diary, that's perfectly great. But in an online blog? It just seems, again, really pointless.
PS: I love your blog and the way people discuss things so maturely on it!
Don't think comments are necessary – but I do think that sort of thing needs to be outlined at the start and not mid-game when you're trying to reign in your readership. Also, if you want 100% positive complimentary comments, I don't think comments shouldn't be enabled at all.
I agree with your stance re respect and editing. I think there's a difference between respectful safe space and differing opinions and hateful speech.
I also agree with some of the other comments about making money off blogs – that does bring it to another level and one might want to be a bit more professional about it. I agree that it came off as immature and narcissistic. I don't think it's a secret that when you post online, it's open to everyone and unless you set up a way to protect yourself from the inevitable crazies or jerks, you're doing yourself a disservice.
First, Sal, I love reading your blog specifically because of the intelligent commentary. Yes, I appreciate the help putting together outfits, but simply looking at the pictures and deciding if the look is worth trying to emulate from my own closet takes about 3.2 seconds. The rest of the very enjoyable time spent at your blog is in reading the comments, finding like minds and hearing other opinions on the various issues you blog about.
Do all blogs need comments? Absolutely Not.
Should blog writers instruct their readers in what to post? Well, it's their perogative. Blog writers can write anything they desire, make any demands of their readers that they feel like, and publish or not publish comments. Their behaviour and attitude will be directly reflected in their readership numbers and thus, their sponsorships. The situation eventually takes care of itself with either success or colossal failure.
I have a note on my own blog, a gentle reminder to keep comments polite. I also moderate,deleting the totally gross and obscene, advertisements for strange investement schemes, and any overly nasty or rude comments. Honestly? I've only had ONE comment in the past three years that I deleted for rudeness.
Hello! I think you do a wonderful job of facilitating positive, productive commenter/blogger interaction. You truly have established a little community.
I understand that it might be hard to accept negative feedback when it is a "personal" attack -about one's looks, etc. but why bother making a style blog public if you just want people to tell you how awesome you are all the time? It must be all about the money. That is really unattractive to me. On WIW, Jessica said that comments could still be made on her Flickr. This is troubling because she still posts in a conversational way but clearly doesn't care about what anyone else has to say. -except that it is okay to say nice things but only about her outfits. If a blogger chooses to not have comments that is fine but pretending that you are having a relationship with your readers when you don't want that interaction is really insincere. Her demanding attitude and "everyone is jealous of me!" rant were a huge turn-off -what about her loyal, supportive readers? I won't be visiting her blog again.
1. They are not necessary unless the blogger sets the tone of the blog to be a community.
2. No, you can, however, require readers to be respectful with their comments. Otherwise, I think it is silly to have a public blog.
I am wholeheartedly on board with you on this issue. Very well-considered opinion, Sal.
First of all, thanks for providing a place for readers to thoughtfully post about this subject. Ever since Jessica's first post, I have been thinking about the issue of comments. I posted a reply on each of her comment-themed posts.
When replying to her posts, I was not catty, challenging or rude, so my comments went largely ignored. In fact, as I typed out my replies, I found myself feeling obligated to write MORE nice things (as a complement to my history of kind, encouraging comments), along the lines of "oh you poor thing, don't worry about it, you have every right, etc.."
After Jessica took her comments down, I spent a while thinking about why I found myself typing the same old (somewhat obsequious) nonsense, especially since it ended up going totally unnoticed and unappreciated.
Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I feel the need to be unwaveringly nice because I can completely relate to how Jessica feels as a blogger. I am not a fashion blogger, mind you. In fact, I am the farthest thing from it–I blog about sewing and life. But if someone posted a comment on my blog suggesting that I look pregnant, (as one WIW reader did) I would feel sick and degraded.
When I saw several commenters asking Jessica why she found comments about her body weight unfair, I realized that the dialogue on her blog had gone from thoughtful to hateful.
And when people stop thinking and start hating, all the good in blogging is gone.
Additionally, after some thought, I realized why Jessica chose to ignore/not respond to the positive comments reinforcing her rights as a fashion blogger. Even if one comment out of a hundred on her comment posts(to borrow your phrase, Sal) was hateful and nasty, I am confident that it still hurt her feelings. And after all, why would you want to engage with readers who want to use your web space as a place to air their pent up anger and frustration? As for the jealously comment–I think all of us should ask ourselves how we would respond in the face of multiple personal attacks. Are you willing to say that you are rational and mature 100% of the time? I sure as hell am not.
One of my favorite things about WIW is the positive, upbeat vibe Jessica maintains. I look at her blog each morning for fashion inspiration, but I also read her posts because I like to click away with a sense of cheerfulness.
I am willing to forgive and forget, because I think Jessica is doing a fine job of navigating the intricacies of a very new social space.
And really, rude/negative commenters: who's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read a blog you don't like?
~Candice
lauren: I hear ya, but I'm not sure it's exactly the same thing as going to a dayjob and expecting your boss and coworkers to lavish you constantly with praise and never say you nay. Some will disagree, I'm sure, as the customer/shopkeeper paradigm has been mentioned, but Jessica is technically self-employed. I'm not sure the comparison is apples to apples.
But I got the impression from her first post on comments that she truly doesn't want ANY constructive or thoughtful reader input ("If you wouldn’t have worn it the way I did, that’s fine! But I’m not looking for pointers! Everyone has a unique sense of style and I like mine just the way it is!"), and that strikes me a just plain odd. Why allow comments if you don't want people to … well, comment?
I completely agree that turning off comments creates an audience dynamic rather than a community dynamic. It seems like that's what both Jane and Jessica are most comfortable with – and, as I've said, I can respect that – but not necessarily what their respective readerships desire.
Loved this post almost as much as I loved the highlarious responses to Jessica's very ill-thought-out post so I'm going to ramble. (BTW, I don't know Jessica well, but if she had given me that post to preview — as some of my friends do with me and I do with them — I would have told her it was a terrible idea. Sorry, kid. See you at IFB.)
I think people who don't want comments and just want to post MULTIPLE large photos of a single outfit (learn to edit!) are fine on Tumblr, where WIW is. I found it surprising that she had comments in the first place because most of the Tumblrs I sTUMBLe across don't have comments. That's why I never go back to them. No one's personal style pictures are that interesting that I have a desire to gaze upon them without any hope of interaction. Note to anyone else who is thinking of starting a new style diary and wants to post 20 giant pictures of themselves in one outfit without getting any grief, I'd definitely recommend a no-comment Tumblr account. And I'd also suggest learning to edit.
Anyway, I think SoS and WIW suffer mostly from something that's not peculiar to blogs AT ALL: a horrible sense of public relations. SoS is young so I understand it more. But it can happen at any level, corporate included — look at what's happening with the Toyota recall. Some people really have a knack for doing the wrong thing image-wise, and Jessica seems to have it in spades. She could have just shut off the comments without creating all the hooha. I could get behind that. But instead, she attracted negative attention. Actually, it's reminding me of talk show host Jay Leno. He "won" but a lot of people hate him now. Conan "lost" but got positive attention.
As for my comments, I moderate them and, since my blog represents my brand, I will delete any shit I don't like ruthlessly. I don't explain or apologize.
Oh how I wish everyone were as reasonable and logical as you are… such a thoughtful post, showing all sides intelligently.
My comment may overlap some other comment that I skimmed rather than fully read, so I apologize for that.
It's hard to know what WIW meant when she created her code of comments. A lot of what she posted there and then posted in her own comments seemed to contradict each other (no negativity, constructive criticism is ok, but don't be mean… what does she even mean by being mean? everyone has a different standard of what is and isn't rude/mean. Maybe she's really sensitive?). But that never really bothered me, what did bother me was the way in which she discussed her code and the need for a code. Her post was the equivalent of "don't be mean, you horrible person whom I don't respect" She asked for decorum without giving decorum.
I think for most of us, it left a bad taste in our mouths. It's not that she shouldn't be allowed to say what she said, but there are consequences, which include annoying, alienating, and angering her readership.
And I'll second any commenter who says the whole situation made her seem narcissistic, young, and naive. Is that a crime? No, but it's not a positive thing for someone in her position.
My friend Sara sent me this link today, in relation to this discussion and I wanted to share. It pertains to comments on political blogs/posts in particular, but has some universal themes.
Why Would Any Non-Psychopath Dance on Deborah Howell's Grave?
Thanks, Jorde.
I think with Jessica she was just upset, and it showed through on the second post.
As for Jane, I think she handled the issue well.
A blog does open you up to a lot of things. Some people feel the need to attack others personally. It's part of the internet, but no-one should HAVE to deal with it. Unfortunetly, other than moderating comments or turning them off, it is inevitable.
For me, I hope I don't make it to that kind of 'popularity' that puts me in the public eye like this. My blog is just my own personal space, documenting my style journey, forcing myself to be more creative, and attempting to form some internet relationships with people that have similar interests. I have been very lucky not to get any nasty comments yet.
If I were to get frequent nasty comments, I probably would follow suit with what you do Sal and just moderate comments.
I actually stopped reading WiW a long time ago because I just didn't feel the connection with it that I do with blogs like yours; the comments policy only reinforced the reasons I lost interest. I'm all for bloggers asserting their right not to be harassed, insulted, or attacked, and I would certainly delete comments from my own blog that had the potential to deeply offend or hurt other readers. But it was the implication that she didn't want or need even constructive criticism that got under my skin. I mean, I like my style too, but not being open to anyone else's opinion is unproductive and a bit childish.
Just because Jessica gets paid for her blogging certainly doesn't make her any less vulnerable to personal attacks. In fact, it seems as though the more popular a blogger becomes, the more readily the trolls will come out of the woodwork just to say awful and disturbing things. But the approach that Jessica took was ill-conceived; asking people to be fair and respectful in their comments would have been totally reasonable, but asking them to only offer praise was obviously going to raise the hackles of anyone with something intelligent and helpful to offer.
I think there's a place for all sorts of variations on blogging; I can happily scroll through photo journals for the eye candy just as easily as I can stop in and read both the posts and the comments, and contribute comments myself as I do here. But allowing comments and then dictating what they can contain is unrealistic, and furthermore it insults just the sort of people that as a blogger you should be happiest to hear from.
This was a very interesting post.
I have been reading Jessica's blog for a few months now and her post on people being jealous of her seemed rather immature.
I think part of the blogging experience is to hear and be heard and as in any relationship there should be respect both ways.
It's not always what you say but how you say it, and Jessica of WIW fell right into the cesspool of negativity she was trying to stop on her blog by choosing to express herself the way she did. She came off negatively because she gave more time to the negative comments than I think she ever has to the people who read (or, as in my case, used to read) her blog and support her. Had she chosen her words a bit more carefully, she could have avoided alienating her readers. She gave the "trollers" more power that way.
I admire all those who blog about fashion and have the courage to post photos of themselves on a regular basis. It's a courageous act to put oneself out there. No one deserves to be hassled by nasty comments but they happen.
So what to do? In her case, Jessica was wise to turn off the comments at least until this blows over and definitely until she figures out a more constructive way to handle them.
And I don't think it's possible to ask readers to only post positive things. If anything, saying that could unfortunately invite even more negative comments.
I really like your policy, Sal. It makes the most sense because it allows for good discussion and respectful disagreement. Thank you for your post.
As long as the comment relates to the post, I'll allow it.
For example, the guest post Elle wrote for Awakened Aesthetic, about Urban Outfitters, has gotten a ton of rude, inflammatory, childish comments, but because they're on topic, I see no reason not to let them through. I've even allowed a "you're fat" comment to come through on an outfit post…because for me, it's black and white: either I allow people to speak or I don't.
If their words relate to the post, their comment goes through. If they're completely off topic and inflammatory – "I just wanted to say that this person posted about you last week on another site and you're stupid" – they get deleted.
I don't think that comments are necessary for a blog to be successful. My own blog drifts somewhere in the hazy waters of wanting both to create discussion as well as to keep a personal journal. Most people in the blogosphere are keen on making connections with strangers that share their passion, and from that standpoint comment sections can be wonderful. Having said that, bloggers are not made of stone, and we are real people. There are a lot of blogs out there that are very personal in nature, and I think those bloggers have the right to protect themselves. However, when a blog is a source of livelihood, then it almost falls under the category of any other media outlet, which, in my opinion, should be able to be criticized in a constructive manner. Just like New York Times does not publish pure hate mail, I think bloggers can choose what they publish and what not. We are (or should be) civilized people, after all.
You can say that putting yourself out there asks for all sorts of feedback, but I think what bloggers are essentially after is a sense of belonging. We are a community, we discuss things that appeal to us, we want to stay positive. I think we have the right to defend our values. That does not mean shutting out all critique, which would be plain narcissistic. But just like there is a social code in face-to-face communication, there should be one in the blogosphere.
Jennifer Nicole: I'm glad you've spoken up, as you're the first to mention a more relevancy-based model. Do you think it’s hypocritical to moderate out disrespectful or cruel comments at all, if they’re still on-topic? Or do you just prefer that model for your own blog?
I rarely read blogs without comments because the point of a blog to me is to interact with the audience. If you want to be private, as I do, you could just keep a journal.
However, I find so many sites with such horrible commenting policies and acre upon acre of trolls that I have to avoid those sites. It affects me deeply — not as a blogger or as a commentator, but as a simple reader — so I have to believe that it affects those involved in the community even worse. I now find myself worrying about random people in the street a lot more — is that the woman who is going to judge me for having heavy thighs and wearing a short skirt? Is that the guy who is fantasizing about attacking me because I'm a woman and therefore should belong to him? I think people who believe their trolling is unimportant because it takes place online are living in a fantasy world. Their behavior makes every space unsafe for the rest of us.
I really appreciate sites like this where the comments are moderated, and we can still dissent. Dissent is ok. Outright hostility is demented.
I don't think comments are necessary on a style blog, or any blog for that matter. It's all up to the author, and how she/he wants to interact with the readers. Now are they relevant or important to a blog. I think so. Comments encourage discussion and interaction, and bring a blog up to the next level… a sort of public forum. I'm a style blogger, and I welcome and love to get comments. It's great to know that whatever I'm putting out there isn't going into some great abyss.
As for telling your audience to only say nice things. Well, I don't think you can expect everyone to follow suit. There's always people out there who will want to create controversy, and even in real life, you'll encounter meanness. If I ever came across a truly rude comment that bothered me, I think I would just go ahead and delete that comment. The problem with WIW is that she may well have insulted anyone who gave her any constructive criticism, and not just the actual rude commenters. I think the better course of action would have been to just delete and not acknowledge the nasty comments.
I read WIW, and I will even through all of this. I read it because I find some of her outfits an inspiration, just as I find Sal's posts inspirational in a different way.
Moderating comments is great until you get to a certain size of blog it becomes difficult, and so maybe turning them off is the only option to protect yourself.
I used to moderate comments, but found that really all I wanted was an e-mail when people commented. When I moderated I put through every comment as long as it wasn't personally offensive (this was back when I was on my old blog, and learning blogger etiquette).
I think that saying "I love your shoes" is a very easy way to comment, and I have done that from time to time. But I try not to say things unless I feel I have something to say that will add to the conversation, or get me a response.
I think this has all gotten way out of hand, and that bloggers should do what they've been doing up to now and track IP addresses of comments (in case it gets to the point of harrassment) and moderate comments/turn them off/grit their teeth and get on with it.
That's what I do, and I'm a baby blogger compared to a lot of people.
Does any blogger have the obligation to allow comments? Not at all. I write a fiction blog, and I don’t think it makes sense to try to make a community around it. There’s an email link in case anyone has any feedback they feel strongly about, but otherwise it would just be my mom posting “Another great one!” which she can tell me on the phone.
I’m also not averse to cutting off comments in midstream if that’s where the fates have led you; a blog is a living organism and you do what you have to do to keep it healthy. The same goes for evolving a robust commenting policy as necessary. But you have to be mature about it or a lot of feelings are going to get hurt. I’ve seen this sort of thing happen before at blogs that grow quickly, or with bloggers that make it to the next level of monetization or get a book deal. Some bloggers handle it really well, but if you’re young, or sensitive, or sometimes INsensitive, you can potentially get Queen Bee about it, and it’s ugly.
Nobody should have to put up with trolls or nastiness, but respectful or even pointed disagreement is something that is inevitable to adult discourse. Jessica, in my observation, doesn’t draw that distinction, and that’s where the whole thing breaks down. It allows her to insulate herself from the feelings it brings her, but it also stifles discussion completely. “You don’t like it? I guess you’re jealous of my beauty/style/success” is impossible to answer because it makes the conversation about jealousy, and not about why you think the outfit would look better with different shoes. Problem solved, from her perspective, but you feel attacked and belittled. You thought you were talking about something with a friend of yours, but she thought the peasants were getting uppity.
Anyway, bad PR. She'll learn, or she won't. It's up to her.
I have been blogging for 5 years and have had my share of mean and rude comments. For a long while I let all comments come through and left them there. My feeling is that if youa re going to put yourself out there on the Internet, you need to be prepared to take all feedback – positive and negative.
I started comment moderation when I had one specific commenter come to my blog every day and not just write nasty comments about me, but started writing them about my husband, my daughter, and my friends. Instead of leaving them where they would receive attention from other readers, I swiftly deleted them. When I became very pregnant and very hormonal and the comments got to be terribly mean, I turned off comments all together for a few weeks. But I brought them back, for I like you see my blog as a community, not just a photo log.
I now have comment moderation on old posts just to prevent all the spam comments full of links for Ugg boots and Viagra. Any other comment comes through. I think that makes my blog even more real – no person goes through life without mean comments and constructive feedback.
And I don't think mean comments come from jealousy. Some are an attempt to be helpful/constructive, some are from angry people who just need to vent somewhere. Mean comments stemming from jealousy is tres 5th grade at recess.
I think you can have whatever comment policy you like. However, disallowing differences of opinion will not improve your blog.
I have noticed that the comment wars (not here, necessarily, but everywhere) are usually between commenters… say you're reading a popular blog written by someone named Sue. Sue writes, Readers, what do you think? You can comment, respectfully, "I disagree with you, Sue, and here's why." But then eleventeen commenters will chime in with "Sue's the best!" "Go away if you disagree with Sue! We love her!" and will range all the way to "If you disagree with Sue, you're fat and ugly."
So I guess I'm saying, the blind cheerleader comments are the least interesting things about reading blogs, and if you limit comments to those, your blog is automatically less compelling to read.
i am surprised to find that my opinion in this situation is a little different than most people. while i totally agree that it would be pointless to insist on "all nice comments," i did not find that to be jessica's aim in her code of comments post. i think what got misinterpreted the most was her request for readers not to tell her to wear things differently. i think what she was asking for is a matter of tone. it feels SO different to have someone write "that skirt looks horrible with that color sweater. it would look much better with black" than to have someone write "ohh wouldn't that color look great with a little black sweater"? i, too, find myself bristling when people write comments like "why would you wear this?" i end up thinking, "why do you care? if you don't like it, don't wear it the way i have!" on the other hand, i LOVE LOVE when readers give my infertile style brain great suggestions for things–and i am often inviting suggestions. however, telling readers what "tone" to comment in is a more difficult matter–hence, the backlash against the "code of comments" post. i have a lot of sympathy for jessica, who is NOT a business–she is a human being with real feelings! i maintain that only siblings can insult your outfits without offense, and that when utter strangers say rude things–or things with a rude tone–that it can be really really hurtful. and regardless of how much energy/effort she puts into WIW, and regardless of what money she gets out of it, jessica deserves to feel good (don't we all?), and she deserves not to be put down by strangers.
it is too bad that these posts have spurned such anger and pettiness (for instance, people saying to her "you think i'm jealous? your outfits aren't that nice" which is downright mean!). my take is with my third-grade teacher: if you don't have anything nice (or constructive) to say, why say anything at all?
As far as I'm concerned, the best thing about my blog BHB is the commentors and their comments. I consider myself to be priviledged that my readers take the time to not only read my posts, but to comment on them too.
And on all the other blogs that I read, I read the comments too.
I respect the right of other bloggers to turn off comments, but I want my blog to be interactive not just written in some kind of self imposed style/fashion bubble.
oh, and one last thing: many people seem to be making the argument that this is "feedback" that you would get from "any job."
this makes a too perfect analogy of jessica=worker and readers=supervisors, one which falls apart in any kind of construction.
jessica does probably get feedback on how she's doing her job–it's the feedback of sponsors, number of readers, invitations to work with certain brands, etc. it's not necessarily her readership who has the "rights" to criticize how she's doing things, mostly because her "job" isn't to please me or you or whomever. it is to represent herself.
I spent a few hours last month looking through every one of Jessica from WIW's outfits. I liked a good number of them and felt inspired by many. Others I didn't care for at all, but of course I did not leave any comments to that effect. I figure Jessica doesn't care what little old me in Utah has to say about her style. And besides, what does it matter to anyone if I like or do not like one particular outfit. The idea is to keep me coming back, right?
I agree that bloggers and those who comment should be polite. There is no need to get nasty.
What I find most ironic is that the post just preceding the Code of Comments (found here http://whatiwore.tumblr.com/post/278967277/what-i-wore-city-girl) asks specifically "What do you think?" If you don't want feedback, don't ask for it.
I don't think comments are necessary for a strictly catalog of style-type blog. If, however, you interact with your readers by hosting a giveaway, asking for their opinions, etc, then I think you've lost the catalog-type of blog and have made it so that comments just might be necessary.
The answer to #2 is a definite no. I think its naive and a bit childish to expect the whole world to agree with you that "you're great!" I think part of being an adult, especially a businessperson is dealing with constructive criticism. People will not always agree with you, its a fact of life. And they may disagree with you because of jealousy. But more often than not, I find that other things go into people's disagreements. So to sum it all up to jealousy struck me as odd. I figured that someone who has lived in a big city and made their living off fashion would have more life experiences to let them know that its not all about them and definitely not all about jealousy. To steal another commenter's word, it was very young.
That being said, it IS ok to expect people to be nice. I'm a big believer in the Thumper way of phrasing things: "If you can't say things nicely, don't say them!" So if you're going to say that you don't like how I pair things, give me a reason and how you might do better rather than saying "ew that's ugly!"
I really do think it boils down into being an adult, which by the way is not measured by age or experience, but rather by maturity (as I can think of at least one young in years blogger that I find myself forgetting how young she is).
Fascinating post! And you have so many comments, so you must be doing something right… xxxx
Another great post as always, Sal, and you've given me a lot to think about with this one. I view my blog in similar terms to how you view Already Pretty in that it's a community space and comments and dialogue are encouraged. Disagreement is fine, but I do expect a certain level of thoughtfulness and respect to go along with it. I like what WendyB said about deleting mean comments ruthlessly without explanation or apology. I'm lucky in that I've only experienced "respectful disagreement" comments from readers, but any spam comments get deleted as soon as they're posted.
as a fellow blogger, i find it so awful that people will make an effort to hurt someone or tear them down. when i first began blogging, i allowed all comments and didn't moderate them, either. when my blog began growing in readership, i noticed negative comments started popping up more often. i made the conscious decision of not allowing anonymous comments and decided moderating would be best. i'm not immune to hurt and i don't have a shield blocking away nastiness. i found myself asking what i did to deserve such hate. i came to the conclusion that i had to take control of my own site and not let these people dictate the mood and my self expression. i just ignored & deleted nasty comments for 2 reasons: 1) i didn't want to play into their negativity & fuel it and condone it and 2) i didn't want my other readers, who are so lovely and so positive, to have to be a part of it. it wasn't fair to them.
i rarely get mean comments anymore. and i can assure you i'm not a dictator – when i cut my hair, i had one reader tell me she liked my longer hair more. i could have easily moderated it because she wasn't "following the pack", so to speak. but she was constructive and very nice about it and i appreciated that so much. one can be honest and speak their mind but there is a way to do it. i think if everyone minded their manners, it wouldn't be such a big problem.
myself, i always stick to "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". if i find a blog no longer appeals to me or the blogger does something that is offensive or i find distasteful, i just stop visiting. what's the point of lecturing them or putting them down? just walk away and move on.
When Jane of SoS removed commenting from her site, I thought "hm, I don't know if I completely agree with that decision," but I kept reading SoS anyway. Jane's tone was that of someone making a personal decision on a personal blog, and as such, kept the issue simple.
When Jessica of WiW did the same, she not only compared herself to other (more well-known) bloggers, but she brought her readers into the fray by intimating that jealousy was a factor in negative commenting. The issue was not just her comments policy, but also her "business model" and her attitude about her own readers. Both her posts on the subject put people on the defensive because of the implied blame she placed on commenters for making a community impossible.
As a result, I no longer read WiW. After witnessing her disdain for people who were ostensibly fans of her blog, my feeling about her point of view has changed. The "you're just jealous!" gambit is not my style.
I also agree with other commenters here who have noticed an increasingly commercial vibe with her posts.
You're on point here. If you ask for comments, you're opening the door for any and all tones of feedback. You can't ask for only smiles or only frowns.
Conversely, what happened to respect? You won't say, "Wow, that dress should not have been made, let alone worn by you!" to anyone's face. So the protection of a computer screen makes rudeness perfectly acceptable? Money-making or not, common decency is still the number one rule for me.
I will just add that I thought there was a difference between WIW and Sea of Shoes reasons for turning off comments. SOS seemed to be saying that, though many, many comments were positive, she was starting to get a little concerned for her safety regarding the negative ones, and that struck me as reasonable. Jessica's reasoning seemed incredibly self-involved. Don't say mean things about me because it hurts my feelings. I know she is a real person, but she seems to have incredibly thin skin for someone who posts pictures of herself on the Internet every day. She said, "someone asked her if she was pregnant" which apparently was horrific for her (this was in the comments, which are deleted now). She could have gone about it in a different way, like Sea of Shoes did, and people would not have responded the way the did. Telling “haters” that they are jealous is a little childish. I deleted her blog from my list and don’t plan on visiting again.
I haven't seen all of what was going on- I just saw the first of J's posts about comments, etc.
but I like having people comment. Not everyone has the same style- that's what makes us unique people. I love to surf blogs of people with similar tastes. I like to think that we are like a big community of wardrobe bloggers and I would expect that same kind of mutual respect. I think honest and constructive criticism in comments is fine. But that is also why there is that beautiful thing called comment moderation and I definitely think it is a godsend to block viagra ads and weird people with non-constructive and hurtful comments.
I honestly started my blog on my own for my own benefit so that I could look at my outfits and see if they looked good/bad and then I discovered that there were SO MANY other wonderful wardrobe bloggers out there and I am glad I have comments and can get inspiration from others.
In a way, I feel bad for Jessica because I think because she is a successful blogger with a large readership she is getting picked on more than someone like me who doesn't have many readers, but at the same time, I think it is a bit rude to expect people to only post positive things. If everyone had the same taste, the world would be a BORING place!
someone once told me that the higher you move up in your job the more your job will demand for better people skills.
i truly think this goes for blogging. in my old job, i felt i had more the ability to brood when things weren't going well, but as an independent, i find that my brooding has to be dealt with in a very contained space, because if i do it in public, i have no control over how people interpret that, no matter how good my intentions are.
i don't know much about what caused jessica and jane to close their comments… and in the three years of blogging, (knock on wood) i've only had very few instances of negative comments. i've only deleted maybe, less than 5? except once post, where the negative comments weren't directed at me,but a retailer i featured (which upon further investigation, happened to be true) of course, i'm not as successful as they are, so maybe snarky people just don't know about my sites yet.
part of me wonders if it's just a matter of learning how to deal with people, it takes time, and there will be mistakes made. i think this presents a good lesson for the in terms of how important the community is, and how important community building is.
whether comments are essential to that? i don't know seth godin doesn't have comments, and he's great.
I don't think bloggers owe their readers anything. Readers can't demand that the blog be run one way or another, and if the blogger wants to remove all comments entirely I think that's fine. I like blogging for the community of it, but if if that's not someone else's goal then there's really no reason she should have to deal with comments if she doesn't want to. I don't think that's wrong or bad.
But I also don't think the readers owe the blogger anything. No one should have to tolerate cruelty or rudeness, but I don't think a blogger can just declare exactly what kind of comments she wants everyone to leave. It's fine to say "I want this community to be safe and happy so no personal attacks please" but a comment code that is essentially "don't say anything I don't agree with" is ridiculous and sort of sends the message that anyone who doesn't agree with that blogger isn't worth being listened to. And yeah, I prickle at that. I think *that* is rude.
Comments on strictly "personal style" type blogs aren't really necessary – I tend to leave comments on personal style blogs I read, just so that person knows I am stopping by and that I appreciate their style (if their style is not my style, I certainly don't leave mean comments or ones suggesting "better" ways to wear things). I feel lucky that I haven't had any mean spirited comments on my blog yet, but I'm sure it'll happen some day!
I never read What I Wore on a regular basis, and I understand what Jessica was trying to say with the "jealousy" thing, but it did come off as rude to me… I understand it more on Sea of Shoes because she is so young and just shut them off without so much fanfare.
Blogs such as yours, where there is a whole discussion going on in the comments, are fascinating! It's so fun to read all the different opinions and stories in the comments! It really helps to get such a wide perspective on issues that are complicated!
I've never visited Jessica's blog before, but as a rule, I do agree with you. Comments posted just to be rude and mean don't enhance the sense of community on a blog. I've dealt with it a bit on my blog, and really, you just have to ignore it. The more fire you give them, the more they light the flame, you know?
Great post! xoxo
THANK YOU for making so much sense. It annoys me when people talk about the mechanics of the social web as though they're forces of great moral import. At most, it's only a question of good business or bad business (or good/bad PR, or good/bad socialization, or whatever). If I don't like someone's blog, I choose not to read it, rather than trying to make it a case study of the violation some great transcendent principle.
You can do whatever you want with your own blog. You can say whatever you want, post whenever you want, and handle comments however you want.
But: No matter what you decide to do with your blog, you're not entitled to anyone's approval, respect or patronage.
And: Just because you have the right to say something, doesn't mean that whatever you say is exempt from being considered offensive, immature, naive, narcissistic, unreasonable, boring, or anything else.
So, I figure, if you're going to blog, choose what you do and say accordingly. And ditto if you're going to read blogs.
Blogs are free, and a blogger can do whatever she likes with her blog. If readers don't like it, they can stop visiting the blog.
That said… if you want a lot of readers, and especially if making money is the primary goal of your blog, you should not turn off comments.
But it's also important to set a tone of civility, and that means not allowing some kinds of comments. Otherwise spammers and trolls will take over. Moderating a popular forum is work, so it's better to look at it as work and not take it personally. If comments are distressing you, better to turn them off or get someone else to moderate for you.
Hey Sal!
When it comes to moderating based on a comment's relevancy, I don't see the choice to parse out disrespectful or cruel comments as hypocritical; I just see it as a little less than transparant. (I'm also pretty extreme when it comes to free speech views, though, so the basis of my whole comment-moderating process.)
The only reason I remove off-topic, rude comments is so my blog doesn't turn into a source for an off-topic flame war…but sometimes it does make me sad that in doing so, I'm making my little corner of the 'sphere a little less transparant.
It's a difficult balance to maintain, and while I don't think one blogger's process is necessarilly better than the other, I personally prefer sites that don't remove my comments just because they don't like my opinion on their (public) post.
Thanks for the post, I read WIW and have thought a lot about this issue since I have my own (hardly read!) blog. I feel like posting rules about comments only alienates the people who have smart insights about whatever it is they're posting. There will always be disrespectful people in the world, whatever forum. Don't expect it to be different on the internet. Seriously, buck up.
As a blogger, if you are offended by specific comments, delete them quietly or moderate. Interpretations of what constitutes an offensive post will vary widely. An important point for any blogger, but particularly those who make a living from the blog is this: if you keep the reasoning for moderating specific comments to yourself, no one else will know or even notice. A blog is your product, take ownership of that and shape it how you want to, but don't go screaming at the public about why you're shaping it a certain way or what pisses you off about it's readership. I was totally turned off by both of Jessica's posts about commenting and I sort of like her.
Edit quietly, that's a good mantra for a blog. It's your right as a blogger to do that. Just like it's your right in any endeavor to shape your final product how you see fit.
With fashion/style blogs I feel like it's even more important to keep your head held high with regards to commenters. These blogs depend on maintaining a high level of perceived confidence. No one wants to read a whiny blog, especially in fashion.
A blog like this one by Sal invites conversations that can sometimes veer into dangerous territory, people getting offended all over the place. I think the comments here work because, 1. they are moderated and 2. comments of any kind are invited. I feel like my comment here will be read seriously and that affects how much I pay attention to word selection, thus avoiding being nasty and/or offensive.
First I want to say thanks, Sal, for this wonderful blog & your always thoughtful posts. I'm a frequent reader, not-frequent commenter.
I think a lot of this conversation is about the kind of space you create (from the bloggers POV) & choose to inhabit(readers POV).
Absolutely bloggers get to decide for themselves the kind of commenting policy they feel is appropriate. Likewise, I choose to spend my leisure time in a space where I feel comfortable.
It's important to me to spend time with people who are positive, pleasant and who I feel respect me.
Jane's post felt more respectful of her readers than the WIW post. Obviously,I'm not either of the bloggers, so I'm not in their heads, but Jane's came across to me as something she needed to do to protect herself & her safe space.
The WIW post made me feel as though she didn't respect me as a person. I don't think she's a horrible person by any means (she's probably great). I just don't want to interact with people who don't want to hear my actual opinions or assume that those opinions are motivated by jealousy. I just think that the space she wanted to create doesn't match the one I want to be in.
It's easy for me to cut my ties and walk away, because I didn't have a lot invested – I stumbled on WIW a few posts after the comments post, got to that point, and decided it wasn't for me. But, I can see where folks who had invested in that space would feel like she had changed mid-stream on them & would have some unhappy/betrayed feelings.
I think moderation is definitely the happy medium between a free for all and turning comments off altogether.
I completely agree about the community feeling, and I would nbever wantto lose the warm fuzzies i get every time i hear a nice comment
….and honestly, if a sweater makesme look horribly boxy and i should probably belt it the next time… yes, I'd like to know. I think that's kind of the point…
I think by making your blog solely visual you're missing out on the collaborations and friendships that most people enjoy about blogging…. but to each their own, right?
Wanted to re-post two great comments left on the Already Pretty Facebook fan page about this post. Waiting on the OK from the second commentor.
Diane said:
If the intent is merely to catalog someone's personal style, then no, I don't think comments are relevent. I did once stumble upon a young woman's catalog of this type and it was really fascinating. She had real style. It wouldn't have occurred to me to critique her style. It is what it is and though it wouldn't work for me, it certainly worked for her and even in the color combinations she chose, I could find something in it.
Conversely, if you accept comments from readers you must be prepared for what you get. Not very interesting otherwise, as a reader. I firmly believe that if people don't like something, they don't have to view it, just go on to something else. To make derogatory comments or get snippy about something you don't like on a blog is ridiculous. Move on. With your blog, while I think you always look lovely, I don't love every piece you display. So what? You are not demanding I go buy it or implying that it works for all, you are just showing me possibilities. Up to me to take or leave them and why would I berate you for it? In the end, what I do with the content is my choosing. Many people, I think, are just cranks and you are right to be spooked. There are too many cranks for my taste. In the end, it comes down to being respectful and most people are, but they are the silent majority. We really should begin to demand respect. Call people out when they are over a line. It does get tiresome.
I think I have a different perspective on comments from my earlier experiences as a newspaper columnist. Journalists are taught that any comment is a good comment because it means people are reading what they wrote. They're also taught that responding to unfavorable comments is unprofessional.
So I believe it's a huge turnoff when bloggers go out of their way to address negative comments. Moderate and weed out the unnecessarily abrasive words if you must, but there's certainly no need to validate abusive words by drawing attention to them. Oh, woe is me, etc., is a bizarre reaction to this newspaper veteran. Be happy people care enough to leave a comment!
I am baffled by the sense of entitlement shown by commenters. IMO, it is quite simple; a blogger can do whatever they want with their comments policy. A blogger has zero obligation to anyone. This is in no way changed when a lucky blogger is able to make an income off of ads.
That being said, if a blogger wants to build and keep an audience, they might want to think about who their readers are and what will keep them coming back. Still, I suspect that 95% of the readers of a blog like WiW never comment and don't care one way or another about the comment policy.
I say, if a blogger doesn't feel like dealing with strangers who come to her blog to call her a narcissist or worse, then she simply doesn't have to. I can't imagine why anyone would feel put out by this choice.
You said it, sistah!
I think that when Jessica said "I'm not asking for critique, you wouldn't tell a stranger that, etc," I really disagreed. When you run a blog, you're not a stranger. If I was having a conversation with someone STRICTLY about style and fashion and they asked me about an outfit they put together, saying "I like it but I would wear a green scarf instead of a blue one," is totally fine, and that is the level I feel blogging is on.
To get straight to the point of your questions:
I don't believe comments are NECESSARY on a blog that is strictly a catalog of someone's personal style. Are they important? Yes, if that person is looking for constructive feedback and for ways to experiment, step outside their comfort zone and grow as a person or blogger.
To point 2 – there is a huge difference between asking your audience to be polite and constructive versus asking them to be flat out "nice." I stopped reading WIW after the whole comments debacle – and I had loved it and been a huge supporter. I think what turned me off was not the posting or insistence on a code of comments – it was that it appeared, reading through the pages and pages of comments on each post, that Jessica devoted considerable time and energy in responding to nasty posters or trolls – people who made up possibly 1% of her reading audience. There were many great, constructive, empathetic, and insightful comments from regular readers who wanted comments to be kept open that seemed to go wholly ignored. Were it me, I would have ignored the trolls and instead focused my energy on responding to regular readers. To respond only to the small minority of negative posters and then close comments altogether based on this small group's influence appears deeply unappreciative of long-time readers and the time they took to weigh in on the comment matter.
This doesn't really answer any of your questions but I keep coming back to a tweaked version of the golden rule. If you, as a blogger, treat your readers (and by extension, your commenters) with respect and believe that they have insightful, witty, helpful, and honest things to say and you give them insightful, witty, helpful and honest posts, I think you'll receive those types of comments in return. Obviously there will always be trolls but that's besides the point. For instance, I've always felt that you value us as readers and want to hear our comments and for the most part, we respond in kind. Thus, I read the comments on this blog and I comment sometimes.
I read a few of Jessica's posts but never stuck around for reasons other than the commenting thing. As far as calling people out for being hurtful or jealous, you get what you give. I truly believe that people will live up to your expectations of them. If you believe your commenters are jealous and rude and you put that out into the blogging universe (either by actually writing a post about it or just giving off that impression in your posts), you will see jealous and rude commenters.
Anyway, as always, such an insightful post. And also Sal, this sentence: "I WILL NOT let hatred and cruelty through the filter – directed at me or anyone else – and I don't give a shit if you think that makes me a hypocrite." You can't hear me but I'm starting a "slow clap standing ovation" over here at my desk. Because I trust you and your voice as a writer, I trust you to moderate and make sure we as readers read what we need to read. So keep the great work.
I absolutely think it's appropriate for a blogger to turn off comments. Some blogs I read, like Threadbared, don't accept comments. It lends itself to a different tone of blog, but that itself isn't bad. I'm a bit more conflicted on making a "only say nice things" rule. Making rules against personal attacks or offensive comments are fine by me, but stifling even polite criticism seems a bit juvenile. Technically, it's her blog so it's up to her, but I still rolled my eyes a little.
On a slightly different topic, I had more of a problem with her declaring any criticism of her outfits was due to jealousy. As most of her commenters are women, it seemed to me to be uncomfortably close to the stereotype that women are catty and jealous and tear one another down. I personally find that a rather hateful, damaging stereotype that is used to dismiss women and women's opinions. I was disappointed to see her espousing it. We women can disagree with or even dislike one another without "jealousy" coming into it.
I *thought* that Jessica was just asking for comments to be presented respectfully, but it seems not.
I read only about 6 blogs with any regularity (yours included, Sal) and I rarely comment.I certainly don't comment in any way that could be rude, even if I think they are dressed in an unflattering manner, or could do something "better". I take something away from each one I enjoy and move along.
I don't understand why the Golden Rule doesn't seem to apply to the internet, or why some people log on just to vent their anger, insecurity, combativeness and what-have-you. I just wish that everyone would remember that on the other side sits A PERSON. These personalities you interact with are not characters or robots, but human beings.
I think that comments are an accessory, not a necessity – an added bonus to the reason why we blog. Obviously, we all love hearing what others have to say about our thoughts or our style, but you take the good and you take the bad (not to sound like the facts of life). I think we all know that as bloggers, we determine how much we let readers into our lives by the amount of thoughts we share with each other, which in return we allow readers to communicate back to us through comments. Afterall, it wouldn't be called a blog if no one read it – it would be a diary/journal.
Now with that said, I don't think that it's appropriate to dictate whether or not comments should be good/bad. I think we, as bloggers and readers, should know the un-spoken rule of be kind to others. Share your opinion, but do it without being negative.
From lovely Ekatherina, via the AP Facebook page, re-posted with permission:
This is probably one of the larger reasons why I have not yet started my own blog… fear of backlash, because, like you, I'd want it to be more about community.
I don't think comments are really necessary but I do think that they're important. They open up the box for new ideas like a discussion board does. But like you said, a blog is its own kind of animal, and if you don't want comments, you can shut them off, no one's life will be ruined because of it.
If you have comments though, its a bit silly to ask that people only say nice things. Going back to my previous point, if people are only restricted to praise your style rather than give constructive criticism or saying, "that looks nice but how do you think it would look with this skirt… here is a link for you to see"… if you're going to do that, you're essentially doing the same thing as shutting your comments off altogether anyways – blocking out real input.
Next time you get a nasty comment, remember that you've made an incredibly positive, even life-changing impact on so many more women than those who have crap to give you.
♥
I have been reading your blog since spring of last year and really truly enjoy the topics you cover. More often then not, you leave readers with something to consider whether or not they dissagree or agree is irrelevent; what is important is that it is talked about. What is more, your goal of keeping your blog an open and safe channel of discussion is very important being that some of the things you discuss is extremely personal in a way that effects women`s sense of self. The beauty of blogs like yours is that it allows for (annonymous or not) communications about things that are not otherwise discussed else where. Hope this makes sense.
-T
I'm headed off to bed for now, but before I sign off for the evening I just wanted to thank everyone for their candor and respectfulness today. A wide variety of opinions have been expressed, eloquently and passionately, and it's been just fabulous reading your thoughts on this topic … especially as it affects you so directly.
Thanks, too, to everyone who has told me that this space has always felt safe and welcoming for open dialogue. I am honored and elated to hear that I'm keeping up my goal of maintaining a blog that encourages thoughtful debate on issues both deep and fluffy. And I'm so, SO glad you're all here to make that happen on a daily basis.
Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts tomorrow, but for now, my heartfelt thanks, and goodnight!
I don't have any particular thoughts on comments on style blogs, but I do read a couple of blogs with incredible communities that actually produce far more text than the blog posts! Also, some of the entitlement issues remind me of similar issues in webcomics, described comprehensively in this post: http://www.websnark.com/archives/2004/10/entitlement_and.html. He describes issues worth considering in blogging as well.
Here are some ways my favorite blogs have dealt with this issue:
could such comments be edited and included or if not possible, edited and paraphrased?
Making Light (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/) uses disemvoweling, where they remove the vowels from offensive comments. That way people can reconstruct the comments if they wish, but it takes some serious effort. Whatever (http://whatever.scalzi.com/about/site-disclaimer-and-comment-policy/), which is written by professional writer John Scalzi, has a comment policy that anyone can insult him but not any other commenter. It doesn't address the main problem of bloggers themselves feeling insulted, but it sets a more civil tone. And still other blogs have built such a great community that it's largely self-regulated. So far as I can tell, Slacktivist (http://slacktivist.typepad.com/) doesn't moderate any of his comments but his avid readers encourage civility admirably.
One of the things that helps to create a community is the interaction of people within that community. For me that means being able to comment and receive comments. I think a lot of us have blogger "friends"- people we have never met but our participation in one another's blogs gives us a connection.
I was a huge fan of Jessica's blog, and was really excited when she opened comments. Unfortunately her first comment retaliation left me so disappointed it tarnished her reputation in my eyes. I haven't been back regularly since because of it.
This is fantastic, what a great post. I agree with so much of what you said. Great insight! I am definitely not looking forward to the negative comments, but I know that they will happen. Not everyone will like your outfit or your ideals, but that is the world we live in. I think you are right — a blog can live with our without comments and that it is up to the blogger. I personally like having comments as it does create a sense of community.
I understand where Jessica from WIW is coming from, but the language she used to get her point across was pretty harsh. There is such a thin line between personal and business when you make money off of your fashion blog, but I think at that point, her blog was strictly business and she should have handled it accordingly. I still read her blog, but I don't go to it as often. I know that she was just doing what she felt right and I can't argue with that. I agreed when she said that we are all in this together, but ALL encompasses the good, the bad and the ugly — even if you don't want it.
Anyways, I love your blog. Thanks for sharing.
Oh, Sal, you're so great! I love your firm, gentle, well-reasoned arguments here.
I suppose I don't really care whether a blog allows posts or not. It's the blogger's choice. I'll leave Jessica out of this – I have only ever been the occasional visitor to her blog. But I adore Jane's style and I'll admit it, I seriously envy the wealth and privilege of her lifestyle. Still, I'd never be nasty to her – none of us can help where or into what circumstances we were born!
Though she turned off comments, I still browse her blog from time to time (I save it up and then go on massive Sea of Shoes binges, which feels TOTALLY indulgent) because, frankly, I wasn't coming to her space to read and comment, just to browse. And maybe I cut her more slack because she's young, too – who knows?
Of course, this is all to say that the blogs where I really spend TIME are the ones with interesting comments sections, where I might want to participate in a conversation, or go check out other people's blogs – like what you have going on here, Sal. So personally, it's the blogger's choice, but for my time, it's more rewarding to interact with a real human person (even if it's only one side of them, this blogger-personA). Inspiration will catch my attention, but interaction will make me a daily reader. =)
Sad that she had to remove comments altogether because some people are just pointlessly mean. I don't get some people. All that energy directed into spite. WTF?
The only answer is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw3Z8Oa7E3Y
(Jill Scott – Hate on Me)
When someone leaves a bad comment, listen to it loud. Fixes everything
I enjoy your blog and this was a well-written one. I found you through Jessica's blog and I, too, had mixed feelings about cutting out all commentary or her site.
However, it is her blog and she doesn't – as you pointed out – have a company of people,or even a person, to help her filter the nasty out of the commentary. She's a one person show and if she feels the need to keep things positive and friendly so that she can live her dream, well, that's fine by me.
I'm a fundraiser for a living and I have had to endure a lot of commentary in my 10+ years of doing this – and there were times when it was just CRUEL commentary. I didn't have a way to filter it and really there were times that I should have had that option. I'm tougher now because of it – have a thicker skin – and I'm older and have had some real disappointments in life…BUT – those comments – the ugly ones – didn't make me any better at my job or inspire me to follow my dream more intensly. At the end of the day, I would've still been driven without the horrible words and would have certainly been more mentally healthy.
So, if she has to get rid of the negative by blocking all commentary, I say good for her.
Best wishes, Melaine
I have stopped reading Jessica's blog because I think she has been unreasonable. I choose to read other blogs, and she may lead her life however she chooses.
You know sometimes people can be intentionally rude, and I think, like you, most bloggers want their blogs to be safe for their readers so I think it's just about right that the owner of the blog moderate it her own way, you know, nip it in the bud before it grows out of hand. Some people can be so thick that they have to be told to be civil, maybe that was what What I wore was feeling back then. There is a way to tell a person something constructive without hurting their feelings.
I love your blog, and the reason why I visit continually is because you promote a healthy attitude about body image, something that I am finding hard to do, which, affects my sewing. Thanks for making me feel safe in your blog.
It's a hard one because what is shows is that most bloggers have had no real training or exposure prior to blogging of publishing. In a magazine someone you work with will have a different view on something, so will the editor and so will the reader.
However, blogging is a self publishing act so basically you get to play Rupert Murdoch and set your own standards, mode of operation and editorial context. If people like they read if they don't they don't. It is a free market and you do as you please.
Jessica and Jane are young, probably a bit immature and basically it is their lives. But equally so are their readership hence immature and nasty comments.
Hi Sal. Interesting but I only found WiW the day Jessica made the second comment post. Until then I had never heard of her. I have two fashion blogs I normally read and I was branching out. For that comment post on WiW to be the first post I read it was a red flag that if you enter here there be dragons. At the same time it peaked my curiosity. I read on.
Of particular interest was her WiWTV video about what to wear camping. I tried very hard to comprehend that she was wearing such a nice pair of boots camping.
Which brings me to my first point. Unfortunately, there are some blogs I read (embarrassed to say) out of a sort of base curiousity. They are not blogs I admire but blogs I can't BELIEVE people write.
Blogs that exist solely to criticize others with or without humor I find to be this way. And yet I am attracted to read them. Why? Base human nature I suppose. But I don't feel good about reading them. And blogs where the author is clearly and blindly narcissistic I find the same way. It's like a watching a naked person walk through Times Square. I am the voyeur. They are the exhibitionist. I marvel at the display. Has the world turned topsy turvey I wonder ??? I go back yet again to see if they have crashed yet. I wonder one day will their story become a cautionary tale… I am ashamed to say this is my attraction.
There are other blogs I read because I find them to be enriching or thought provoking or educational or humorous. I am not ashamed to be reading these.
Let's face it, narcissism is a spectacle in itself. A lot of celebrities think we watch them because they are fabulous, but the truth is we watch them because we can't believe our eyes. Will they get away with pushing the boundaries? And for those of us who try to live honorably and hang by a thread we wonder, "is dishonor going to be rewarded yet again?"
Jessica assumed her readership was there because they wanted to be like her…thus she made the comment about their jealousy. She didn't entertain the idea that people might be looking at her as a sort of spectacle. That her narcissism itself was perhaps the main attraction. That some weren't ogling her outfits but her shameless self promotion.
Does anyone disagree that a large part of fashion exists to inspire jealousy? Isn't that why perfumes are named things like Covet and Envy? The truth is Jessica seems to want to be envied by us and that is what I think the backlash is all about. And when she wasn't admired and envied, when she was criticized instead, she got angry. Sadly for her, it was as transparent as the shadow in the photo on her post.
When she mentioned in one post the book The Secret and her adherence to its tenets, that gave me a good idea of her politics. Thus we have the insistance on positivity (in order to attract good into her life) which ironically caused her to behave so negatively (and attract all this negative attention). I on the other hand believe that when we think too highly of ourselves we will be humbled in order to give us a more balanced perspective of ourselves.
I don't think I have answered any of your questions, Sal, but I think there are deeper issues behind the questions of blog commenting codes that go right to the heart of human nature and its wonderous strength and exploitable weakness. Thanks for letting me have my say, if you do that is.
Your perogative. 
I agree with everything Anon at 5:11 posted but am way too lazy to ever have typed all that out. [So thanks!]
Bloggers can certain define what they mean by "community." Some blogs are definitely all about the discussions, but that's because there's enough meat on the bone/squash in the gourd.
While AlreadyPretty is a hybrid style/discussion blog–hurrah!– a lot of fashion and decor blogs are just eye candy. Ditto for photo-heavy forums related to those topics. The comments are basically irrelevant. Sometimes a skirt is just a skirt and not a manifesto, you know?
Yes, it can be great to have feedback on how to tweak something because it gets the brain going or expands one's visual literacy or horizons, but really it's pretty extraneous. I mean I started my thang after years of forum participation (aka "community") because I wanted a place to be a narcissist [<--obligatory self-promotion], and while comments are fine it's the self-expression that drives me/it.
I suppose it's nice to have bloggers who are self-aware enough to know what type of blog they have, but it's not rocket science for readers to figure it out.
IMO straight-up self-expression bloggers should just delete (ok, "moderate) what they dislike. And you know, as much as I *enjoy* transparency, I have no problem with heavy-handed moderation. As a poster above said, people whose comments get deleted figure out the deal pretty quickly.
Thank you for your obviously thoughtful post. I wanted to take a moment and appreciate you and your blog. I very much enjoy your posts and even when they don't apply to me or are not my personal style… I still appreciate your time and energy.
Keep it up
I occasionally like SoS but rarely, rarely visit it. And quite honestly, every time I have gone, I've wanted to leave negative comments, not because I'm a negative person at all, but something about her blog pulls out the negative person in me, and MY reasons are – She's young, rich, and has $1000 necklaces and shoes and such, when I'm in my mid 20's, struggling in a fast food place to keep my internet on. So yes, my want to post semi-negative comments are a result of that horrible monster called jealousy. And I'm sure a lot of her other commentors may feel the same, and since her blog is mainly for eye candy, I don't think she needs comments.
I do however feel that comments attract me to a blog, and I like blogs that interact with their readers a lot more, such as yours! It gives me a better feeling, and a less "look at me!" feeling.
I used to have a blog myself – not a fashion blog, but short humorous essays on my life as a working mom in Alaska. Let me tell you, I got some real weirdos commenting on there, but often other readers would take them down better than I ever could have. Or I'd just ignore them. I LIVED for the constructive criticism, though – that's why I'd put myself out there in the first place.
I only recently started reading fashion blogs at all. To me, the comments that make suggestions or point out how that person might have worn something differently are a huge part of the learning process, as long as they are respectful. I saw nothing really nasty on WiW until those two posts on comments went up. The second one really turned me off, for two reasons. One, the assumption of jealousy being the only reason for any "negative" (defined quite broadly). I am a 43 year old professional with a complete and satisfying life – it's sheer ego to think I could only be jealous, and not have anything helpful to say. Don't degrade your readers with that kind of implication.
Two, it's irritating to be told by anyone what you can or can't say in a public forum. Not that I ever commented at all; I only comment on blogs like this one, where I feel my thoughts will be taken in the right spirit by the blogger. I think defining whether you do or don't consider yourself a public forum and if so, setting some ground rules from the outset, would go a long way toward alleviating this issue.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful analysis, Sal!
I have been wanting to talk about this for a while, I just don't know how to put it into nice words. In terms of Jessica, I stopped reading her blog. Mainly because I thought it was immature the way she came about it. I think that her telling off her readers was a big slap in the face and I hope that those who were complaining decided to boycott her blog. Hers wasn't just about showing herself, it is about fashion and bringing together a community and I feel like she totally shot down the community aspect.
I guess I just don't get why she decided to alienate her readers for 2 or 3 negatice comments. As for Sea of Shoes…whatever, they aren't my thing. Overly pretentious is not something I enjoy on a daily basis. Sure Jane is cute and has good style, but we would all be cute with good style if we all had the funds.
Maybe it's just that I'm starting out in blogging, maybe it's because I ask for responses to questions in my posts, but I crave comments. Everytime I get one I celebrate just a little bit that someone cares enough about what I'm saying to respond.
I visited WIW one time, but thought that she wasn't a girl that I would want to hang out with. I thought her personal style was inspiring, but not my taste, so I never went back. It's pretty much as easy as that. No one is being forced into readership.
I'm so sad – I thought I submitted a comment, but then it didn't appear. As far as I know, I don't think I said anything too bad. Sal, did you get my other comment?
Ah well – the gist of my other comment was that I have been reading WiW for what feels like a super long time and yeah – now I don't anymore.
Now I'm down with bloggers who are funny (daddylikey.com) and thoughtful (that's you Sal!). It was so weird that Jessica seemed utterly shocked by her readership's reaction. I wanted to be like "dude, when the overwhelming response is negative… something is up).
Alfalfa: NO! I haven't moderated out ANY comments from this post … but my Blogger interface has been acting wiggy lately so I wonder if it got stuck/lost. I'm sorry, doll! And glad you came back again to put in your two cents.
Oh hi Sal! I had the same experience as Alfalfa.
Hope the wigglies go away!
Anyway, I think I said…you approached this issue in such an objective, calm way…and the responses from readers have reflected that back – I think it's blog karma!
I think that blog karma could have had a role in WiW's case – someone must have hurt her, and she perhaps responded in hurt or frustration and the cycle continues.
If I recall correctly, you were on the receiving end of negativity during your shopping ban and yet you have continued to be open to discussion, while keeping the nasties away.
I do agree that there is no right way to run a blog but there's probably better ways.
Not in terms of whether to have comments or not but just in terms of what you put out there whether it is positive.
Thing is normally Jessica comes across positive which is why I speculate she's coming from a hurt place.
The only comment that really niggled was the reference to Tavi as a lead in to the jealousy thing.
I don't think saying Tavi's hat is obstructive and that she could have been more considerate means people are jealous.
Ditto with Jess – not all criticism comes from a negative or jealous place.
I have rambled ENOUGH!
Sal, this is one great summary of what I thought when I read the posts on comments over at What I Wore.
I haven't been around in this community for a long time, but I've spent enough time in different places on the web to know that trolling and negativity is the #1 thing which evolves from anonymity. I think that blog moderation is a great way to filter trolls from contructive criticism, and personally, I don't like to read blogs where I'm told that only positive comments are appropriate even if I might feel different about an outfit, issue or whatever.
I like to speak my mind (which – to me – is a different thing than trolling out of jealousy, boredom or for any other reason), and the web is a great place to communicate with loads of smart, creative and interesting people – which shouldn't be limited by the personal inability of dealing with negative feedback.
i think this is a real issue. and it's great to hear a really respectful, thoughtful commentary on it.
i wish it were just the anonymous 'trolls' out there that were the problem, but there seems to be a group of non-anon bloggers out there that are really fanning the flames of this comment issue.
(i.e. see these posts that 'reopen' comments for the sea of shoes blog –
http://www.godammit.com/tag/sea-of-shoes/ )
some of the comments are from authors of blogs that i've read, and it makes me sad to see this. and angry. i think it's crossed a line and i'm surprised at the people that participate.
i clicked on one commenter (who comments "to jane, with hate") and found her most recent entry on her own blog is about her insecurities and the difficulties in dealing with 'haters' on her blog. just to give an idea of how toxic this all is.
so in that context, it's pretty clear why jane closed her comments. i think she handled it in a very simple straightforward way actually.
on one hand i would say it's better to ignore this kind of thing, and negative comments in general, but there is a fine line sometimes between ignoring and looking away.
Hey Sal, I've been MIA online and am just now seeing this. Wonderful post, I fall decidedly on your side of the argument and couldn't have articulated my reasons any better than you have here. I agree that no metaphor really works in explaining how a reader/blogger relationship should work since this is such a new thing. I also like the community aspect of a blog, so that's how we choose to run ours.
I don't care for the argument that criticism stems from jealousy or that people who provide feedback that doesn't jive with you are "haters".
Working in a college environment, you learn that criticism and feedback is the only way you progress in your studies and your field. It's helpful.
That being said, it should be respectful and constructive. In that regard, I agree that hurtful and demoralizing comments should be deleted, the blogger has as much of a right to delete a comment as the reader has to write it.
I wasn't a fan of how Jess approached her comments code of conduct, but I do think that it's her site and she doesn't owe it to any "clients" to run it a certain way. You like it, you read it. You don't, you just go to other blogs.
S
Feedback is a gift. You can give someone that gift wrapped in pretty paper (with a cute gift tag on it) or you can just hand them the thing wrapped in a dirty diaper
What I'm saying is: I take all feedback in the spirit that the gift is meant. If the gift arrives in a dirty diaper, I'm very likely to just toss it in the trash.
When people decide to comment on my blog, I think their comments reflect more about them than me. And, I'd take feedback any day over silence.
Do I think she acted wisely when she turned off the comments? In a word, "No." Do I think she needs to take her "job" more seriously and figure out the difference between poopy diapers and pretty paper? Um. Yes. And that's where the delete button could help. Having written that, I think if the stylish wedge heeled shoe was on my foot, I'd be very inclined to use that delete button sparingly, otherwise, what would I learn about myself? What would I learn about my readers/advertising demographic? Not a lot.
I also am a follower of WIW. I love Jessica's style and I like 99% of the outfits she puts together. I never bothered to read the comments.. until she brought it up with her "jealousy" post. At first, I was really surprised by the response it got. A lot of the early comments posted were from people who work in the fashion industry who basically told her she was being immature, to suck it up, and to grow a thicker skin. I thought that was a little harsh. Bloggers are human and have emotions too..
I did agree with other commentors though that we should be able to voice things like, "I LOVE that blouse, but not that skirt." I don't consider that "trolling", it's just a difference in opinion and we have our own style too.. Jessica didn't want to hear even that. I felt like all she wanted were the nice things. I agree with everything Vanessa said in her comment.
We should all look for ways to improve ourselves.. if Jessica took those kinds of comments and actually took them as constructive criticism and asked herself, "What was it about that outfit that some people might not like? How could I pair them differently next time?" instead of asserting, "Well it's MY style and I like it, and that's that" well.. I think her style and blog could really grow. In her first post about comments, she specifically said that it was her style and if you didn't like it well… you could go somewhere else. That I did NOT like.
And after she turned off her comments completely, I think I lost a little respect for her. I think she could have moderated her comments, deleted the ones that were outright nasty and keep the ones that were constructive. Instead, she turned off her comments completely, and that showed me she let it all get to her. She asked for opinions, people gave it to her.
I might be rambling soooo, in conclusion: I used to check WIW daily, but I've restricted myself to checking once a week. She is getting paid by readership after all. And I don't support her as much as I used to.
Thanks for bringing up the topic and allowing us to talk freely about it
SUCH a great post, Sally. I'm sure you've read your fair share of comments, but I just had to pipe in. As a fellow fashion blogger, I'm blessed to have a lot of lovely, positive readers. That's not to say that people don't ever disagree with me, but their way of letting me know is typically civil and sensitive. I approve all comments except those that are purely derogatory (like when I was recently told that my eyebrows made me look like a whore. Awesome, thanks for that). I've always liked your little snippet above that says that you don't approve disrespectful comments. It's a great way of saying 'write what you like, but keep things civilized.' The blogging community is one that's so unique and special and I'd be sad if I ever had to turn off my comments due to a handful of mean people. Thank you again for such an insightful post. x
I'm not a fashion blogger and just came here from It's Unbeweavable. All I can really say is that I think you laid this all out very thoughtfully. I agree, a blog without comments is surely a valid form of blogging- isn't that basically Tumblr, after all? It ain't for me, but who's to say it isn't for someone else.
As for Jess' posts, I think she did the right thing taking comments off if she's not looking for anything other than positive feedback. She sounds like she'd rather communicate through email anyway.
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